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View Full Version : The East Is The Orient. The West Is The Occident. The North and South Are:


HeyHomie
01-19-2016, 09:58 AM
The Borient and the Australient?

Inner Stickler
01-19-2016, 10:11 AM
Sure or boreal and austral if you don't mind them being adjectives. It's obsolete now but septentrion meant north and other languages have used meridian or a flavor thereof to mean south but English practically never has.

Colibri
01-19-2016, 11:12 AM
Right. Septentrion was used to refer to boreal regions in English and in French but is now obsolete. Meridien has been used in French.

In modern usage, you would just refer to the boreal and austral regions.

Smeghead
01-19-2016, 11:46 AM
Not me. I'm sticking with "Antipodean" until I die!

jtur88
01-19-2016, 12:06 PM
In Spanish, 'oriente' and 'poniente' are used to designate east and west in street addresses. In about 1870, "este" and "oeste" began to dominate over "oriente" and "poniemte" for Spanish general usage, except for its retention for addresses. Poniente's etymology derives from the verb 'poner' -- "to put, or place".

Kobal2
01-19-2016, 12:46 PM
Right. Septentrion was used to refer to boreal regions in English and in French but is now obsolete. Meridien has been used in French.

In modern usage, you would just refer to the boreal and austral regions.

"Septentrional" and "méridional" are still adjectives in modern French, though they are indeed kind of old fashioned and not in common use. One exception : "un méridional" or "des méridionaux", as substantives, to refer to people who come from the south of France notably the Marseilles region.

GreasyJack
01-19-2016, 03:05 PM
Although in the case of "austral" there's the problem that when "aust" got borrowed by the early Germanic languages, the meaning somehow shifted from south to east. Aust is in fact the root for the word "east" in English and its equivalent in all the other Germanic languages. So using "austral" as a fancy way to say "southern" would been pretty confusing in a lot of the Germanic languages. Of course it also led to the confusing situation with Australia (meaning "southern land") and Austria (meaning "eastern land.")

MikeS
01-19-2016, 04:46 PM
According to the OED, "orient" and "occident" ultimately derive from words that meant "to rise" and "to fall" in other languages (bolding mine):
orient: Anglo-Norman orient, oriente and Middle French orient the East, region situated to the east of a given point (beginning of the 12th cent.), the corresponding compass point (first half of the 12th cent.), sparkle of the eyes (1573), lustre of a pearl (1742) and its etymon classical Latin orient-, oriēns the eastern part of the world, the part of the sky in which the sun rises, the east, the rising sun, daybreak, dawn, use as noun of oriēns rising, eastern, present participle of orīrī to rise
occident: Anglo-Norman and Middle French occident west (early 12th cent. in Old French), western part of the world (mid 12th cent.), countries and people of western Europe (1690), and their etymon classical Latin occident-, occidēns (noun) the region in which the sun sets, the west, the western part of the known world or its inhabitants, (adjective) western, uses as noun and adjective respectively of occidēns, present participle of occidere to fall towards, go down, set, die, be ruined
So it may be that the reason there isn't a parallel construction for "the north" and "the south" is that the sun doesn't do anything there.

RadicalPi
01-19-2016, 04:57 PM
"Septentrional" and "méridional" are still adjectives in modern French, though they are indeed kind of old fashioned and not in common use. One exception : "un méridional" or "des méridionaux", as substantives, to refer to people who come from the south of France notably the Marseilles region.

Similarly, you can use the word "midi," which normally means "noon," for south. See, for example, the Gare du Midi in Brussels.

Kobal2
01-19-2016, 05:13 PM
Similarly, you can use the word "midi," which normally means "noon," for south. See, for example, the Gare du Midi in Brussels.

Right. Although now that I really think about it, it's kind of strange. Noon/midday is at the top of the clock face, which should be a symbol of north, right ? I guess the Sun itself is due south when it is noon, hence the expression ?

Isilder
01-19-2016, 07:04 PM
Um, the north is called the Arctic, and the south is called the Antarctic ?..in English (and most major european languages ?)



So it may be that the reason there isn't a parallel construction for "the north" and "the south" is that the sun doesn't do anything there.

It does do stuff there !
It becomes cancerous and estival, and after a while it turns into a capricorn,
and hiburnal.

RadicalPi
01-19-2016, 07:29 PM
Right. Although now that I really think about it, it's kind of strange. Noon/midday is at the top of the clock face, which should be a symbol of north, right ? I guess the Sun itself is due south when it is noon, hence the expression ?

Yes.

coremelt
01-19-2016, 09:15 PM
Not me. I'm sticking with "Antipodean" until I die!

Yep, I've heard "Antipodeans" used to refer to people coming from Australia, New Zealand or South Africa. Technically it would also refer to South Americans but never heard it used that way. This term has some actual usage.

JKellyMap
01-19-2016, 09:38 PM
In Spanish, 'oriente' and 'poniente' are used to designate east and west in street addresses. In about 1870, "este" and "oeste" began to dominate over "oriente" and "poniemte" for Spanish general usage, except for its retention for addresses. Poniente's etymology derives from the verb 'poner' -- "to put, or place".

Right..."where the sun sets" or "puts itself [down]"

JKellyMap
01-19-2016, 09:53 PM
Right..."where the sun sets" or "puts itself [down]"

Similarly, French "levant" = [where the sun is] "rising," i.e. the eastern shore of the Mediterranean.

Jaguars!
01-19-2016, 09:57 PM
Yep, I've heard "Antipodeans" used to refer to people coming from Australia, New Zealand or South Africa. Technically it would also refer to South Americans but never heard it used that way. This term has some actual usage.

Antipodes are places directly across the earth from each other. NZ is Antipodal to Europe, specifically central Spain, which is why they are sometimes are known as Antipodeans. The other main Antipodal landmasses are Argentina and Eastern china.

coremelt
01-19-2016, 10:04 PM
Antipodes are places directly across the earth from each other. NZ is Antipodal to Europe, specifically central Spain, which is why they are sometimes are known as Antipodeans. The other main Antipodal landmasses are Argentina and Eastern china.

Yes technically, but its a fairly common vernacular usage in British english to refer to people from the Southern hemisphere former colonies as "antipodeans" while Australians / Kiwis / South Africans would not refer to UK people that way.

JKellyMap
01-19-2016, 10:12 PM
Antipode is also the name of the longest-running "radical" human-political geography journal -- Marxist/feminist/queer/subaltern/post-colonial and the like. Clever title, is it not?

Mangetout
01-20-2016, 02:24 AM
Antipodes are places directly across the earth from each other. NZ is Antipodal to Europe, specifically central Spain, which is why they are sometimes are known as Antipodeans. The other main Antipodal landmasses are Argentina and Eastern china.

Yeah. 'Antipodes' just means (pretty much literally) 'the opposite of where we're standing'.

MrDibble
01-20-2016, 02:35 AM
Yep, I've heard "Antipodeans" used to refer to people coming from Australia, New Zealand or South Africa. Technically it would also refer to South Americans but never heard it used that way. This term has some actual usage.
Never really heard it used to refer to South Africans, myself, just ANZACS. Various (http://thefreedictionary.com/antipodean) dictionaries (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/antipodean) seem (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/antipodean) to concur (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/antipodean).

botsgotme
01-20-2016, 04:07 AM
So are the "podes" opposite the antipodes?

coremelt
01-20-2016, 04:34 AM
Hyberborean apparently was an ancient greek word for a mythical land beyond the North wind.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperborean

John Mace
01-20-2016, 09:51 AM
Um, the north is called the Arctic, and the south is called the Antarctic ?..in English (and most major european languages ?)

Australia is an English word, no?

Colibri
01-20-2016, 10:02 AM
Um, the north is called the Arctic, and the south is called the Antarctic ?..in English (and most major european languages ?)

Not really. Those are particular zones, not terms for northern regions in general like boreal and austral are.

Australia is an English word, no?

But in English it's the name for a particular continent/country. Again, it doesn't apply to southern regions in general.

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