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#1
Old 12-04-2003, 11:55 AM
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How could anyone find this arousing? (Ridiculously non-worksafe links, and maybe TMI)

While reading another thread, I noticed a few posters talking about Dolcett's Comics. (Not worksafe. At all.) I felt I had to see them for myself to prove they were actually real, and man, are they ever.

I've never had images put me so close to the edge of vomiting, and things didn't get any better when I realized that there are people that actually find this kind of thing a turn-on. Not only that, but these fans are actually pretty articulate, which lends its own sense of unease. I would've rathered they'd been ranting lunatics.

I can't--or at least really don't want to--believe that there are people out there who think being impaled with metal spikes, cut in half with sawblades, spit roasted, electrocuted, beheaded, hanged and eaten are all dead (no pun intended... much) sexy.

My question is this: what makes someone into a Dolcett fan? What in the world would need to go wrong, developmentally, for someone to enjoy this sort of thing?

Last edited by bibliophage; 12-10-2003 at 01:23 AM.
#2
Old 12-04-2003, 12:08 PM
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Purge Computer First, Then Maybe My Tummy...

I can honestly say...

I live alone. No one else uses my computer. I must now "purge" the History/Cookies because there's just something SO wrong about it being on there.

I have no clue what would make people enjoy this.
#3
Old 12-04-2003, 12:32 PM
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Mostly the shock value I would say. One forgets that pornography does not have to be sexually arousing. Something to chalk up on your long travels on the inet.
#4
Old 12-04-2003, 12:33 PM
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I'm waiting for the people who are going to come in and insist that "real Dolcett girls DO exist!!!" Because some cartoon artist says so, right.

I don't see what is sexy about it myself but there are a lot of kinks out there that I don't see the appeal of. This one isn't half as gross as some I've come across - at least these are just comics.
#5
Old 12-04-2003, 12:36 PM
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Thats just... wrong!
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#6
Old 12-04-2003, 12:39 PM
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I've seen enough of those run-through-with-a-spit scenes to last me the rest of my life...
#7
Old 12-04-2003, 12:43 PM
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Have you seen what is going on in Germany right now? I am convinced that there actually is no limit to the depravity of man.
#8
Old 12-04-2003, 12:46 PM
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I worked with a guy named Bernd Brandes, who's was sexually driven to be killed and eaten.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3286721.stm

If that can happen, being a Dolcett fan is possible.
#9
Old 12-04-2003, 12:47 PM
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Which is what Rhum Runner was talking about.
#10
Old 12-04-2003, 01:22 PM
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Whenever I get a really sick link like that, in my e-mail, and ask myself that same question, I have to remind myself, that if it is being produced, there is indeed a market.
And considering the amount of porn/erotica that's being produced which is outside the mainstream (however we define that), means there are a lot of people out there with sexual preferences that I find very, very strange.

However. As long as it is consentual and laws are not broken, who am I to judge?
#11
Old 12-04-2003, 01:22 PM
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Well is it that so much different from the art of Hieronymus Bosch, or Giger, or Damien Hurst. Much less artistic, but examining the destruction or mutilation of the flesh is something that has allways happened in art. Not sexy though, and sexist if all the victims are female.
#12
Old 12-04-2003, 02:01 PM
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... and I couldn't masturbate to a Dolcett comic if my life depended on it.
#13
Old 12-04-2003, 02:21 PM
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This is so very wrong. Colinmarshall, thanks for killing my sex drive right when my wife and I are trying to have a baby. You owe me a beer or three dickhead ;P
#14
Old 12-04-2003, 02:41 PM
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SeekingTruth: Sorry, man. On the plus side, if you need to go on a diet or something, you'll always have that page to kill your appetite, too.

"Presenting the ULTIMATE DIET! Yes, we've spliced ALL of Dolcett's spit-impalement scenes together into ONE BOOK! Now, when you're feelin' the jones for that Ben and Jerry's you've got secreted away in the fridge, you'll be able to DEFEAT the urge once and for all!"

I am reminded of a conversational exchange I once heard:

Girl: I know this Mormon woman once who said that her teachers told her that, whenever she felt the urge to masturbate, she should think of unsexy things like loved ones with gaping wounds.
Guy: But that's what I think about when I do masturbate!
#15
Old 12-04-2003, 02:47 PM
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I haven't clicked on the link, but I'm pretty sure I've seen some stuff similar to the idea. There are even some Japanese manga art featuring nekked girls turned into sushi plates and whatnot.

That said, I'll just mention that a look at what passes for popular programming in prime-time TV convinces me that any kind of crazy idea will have somebody who enjoys it.
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#16
Old 12-04-2003, 02:54 PM
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Gee, and I used to think I was pretty kinky...

I feel so vanilla right now.
#17
Old 12-04-2003, 03:04 PM
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I felt sick earlier today.

It got better.




...it just got a lot worse.


Quote:
"Mr Brandes agreed to have his penis cut off, which Mr Meiwes then flambéed and served up to eat together. "

ugh...
#18
Old 12-04-2003, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Gaspode
However. As long as it is consentual and laws are not broken, who am I to judge?
How could necrophelia be consentual? A will?
#19
Old 12-04-2003, 03:41 PM
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I presume the whole eating/being eaten thing is some sort of hyper manifestation of the desire for a lover's surrender or the desire to surrender to your lover. Kinda like people find vampires sexy, I guess? I can grok the symbolic appeal.

I know there are cultures in which, when someone dies, you consume a small symbolic portion of their flesh, so that they can live on inside you. And, let's not forget the Eucharist and the symbolic cannibalism there.

I'm not too squicked by the prospect of cannibalism under starvation conditions or ritual micro-cannibalism for ancestor worship or the symbolic cannibalism of the Eucharist.

So, I guess, in theory, I can see how someone could blow the whole 'unity through surrender' thing--where dying and giving up your corpse to be eaten is the ultimate surrender--way out of proportion and find it a turn on. But...

*shudder*
#20
Old 12-04-2003, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jake4
How could necrophelia be consentual? A will?
I was refering to things in general, that I find weird. Besides, in my country, necrophilia is illegal.
#21
Old 12-04-2003, 06:12 PM
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In my country, if anyone sees you frowning at a minority you must chant ''we must celebrate diversity'', or risk arrest.
#22
Old 12-05-2003, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by pluralgravity
In my country, if anyone sees you frowning at a minority you must chant ''we must celebrate diversity'', or risk arrest.
You forgot the bit where you have to do the dance.
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#23
Old 12-09-2003, 05:51 AM
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Re: How could anyone find this arousing? (Ridiculously non-worksafe links, and maybe TMI)

Quote:
Originally posted by Colinmarshall
While reading another thread, I noticed a few posters talking about Dolcett's Comics. (Not worksafe. At all.) I felt I had to see them for myself to prove they were actually real, and man, are they ever.

I've never had images put me so close to the edge of vomiting, and things didn't get any better when I realized that there are people that actually find this kind of thing a turn-on. Not only that, but these fans are actually pretty articulate, which lends its own sense of unease. I would've rathered they'd been ranting lunatics.

I can't--or at least really don't want to--believe that there are people out there who think being impaled with metal spikes, cut in half with sawblades, spit roasted, electrocuted, beheaded, hanged and eaten are all dead (no pun intended... much) sexy.

My question is this: what makes someone into a Dolcett fan? What in the world would need to go wrong, developmentally, for someone to enjoy this sort of thing?
OK, I finally looked.

You know, it was not quite as bad as I was expecting, but yeah, still pretty gross. If missionary sex is "vanilla" and tie-up-your-partner bondage is "rocky road", this is "tub of unidentifiable left far too long in the back of the fridge" but not quite "putrified beyond all bearing". Sex and food are connected, hence "honeybun" and "sweetie" and so forth, this is just a great deal more explicit

It's like rape fantasy - it's not that uncommon to have rape fantasies, but I don't know anyone who wants to be actually raped, which is a crime. (Although, given the depths of human depravity, you might be able to find such a person)

Worse yet, I actually considered the question of how someone could find this arousing. And here are my thoughts and ramblings:

First of all, this is clearly fantasy. Sick fantasy, twisted kink fantasy, but fantasy nonetheless. These are not factual depictions of actually impalements, which would be a lot more bloody, agonzing, and gross Definately falls into the cateogry of "erotic horror", which is pretty much what it says, a hybrid of the two genres. Clive Barker's Hellraiser is in that circle of hell, particularly the books and comic book series. There's a successful series of short story anthologies called Hot Blood. Dolcett is by no means unique. I doubt he's even the outer limits of this kink.

Now, there's all sorts of things going on in the Dolcett stories that tie in with other forms of erotica. For instance, there's a lot of just basic screwing going on (granted, one of the pair is frequently skewered at the time, or about to be). There's an exclusitivity aspect - a man getting the last f*ck, being the last to sexually "own" a woman, sort of the flip side to be a virgin's first f*ck. There is the obviously sexual entry point(s) for the spits, lots of comments on width and length... why do people want to watch women f*cking John Holmes? I don't have to explain the phallic symbolism of a spit, do I? Lots of dwelling on a very ritualized posture in the women, close ups of the spit emerging from the mouth which parallels some of the close-ups of oral sex. The aspect of complete sexual surrender has been touched upon already. The image of a woman with a huge spit protruding from her mouth isn't that different from an image of a woman with a huge dildo shoved all the way down her throat and choking off her air.

Now, as long as this stays fantasy that's one thing. I mean, it's somewhat on the same level as folks who dress up in bondage gear and play with whips and chains but don't actually kill or maim each other. Problem is, this isn't always fantasy to some folks. We have Revtim's former co-worker for example. There are accounts on the web of folks who apparently are into castrating men and eating their testicles. Not as fantasy - as reality. (Must be really hard to get a second date with these folks). "Body Modification" that involves lopping bits off oneself, or so altering one's genitalia I think you need an adapter to use it for actual sex. And let's not forget the late Jeffrey Dahmer, who screwed, lobotomized, screwed, killed, screwed, and ate, in roughly that order, two or three dozen victims.

Well, it's at least somewhat obvious (to me) that part of the appeal to the male viewer is the absolute dominance over another human being, and the voluptuous, submissive females. But apparently the original Dolcett website was started and maintained by a woman, who is an unabashed Dolcett fan. Huh?

Well, it's only a theory, but I think, aside from the appeal to a sexual submissive of the complete surrender thing, it has to do somewhat with the size of those spits. It's the Ultimate Phallus. Dolcett did not invent erotic impalement. It's been done before, and usually involves the women rapsodizing on how the pole is bigger, wider, harder, and in general more fantastic than any man's wand could possibly be. The idea being that it is soooooo wonderful, and the orgasm is so great, that it's worth dying to experience it. And, indeed, Dolcett girls seem to think along those lines. They even think it while spitted and roasting (and there's no way in hell burning alive could be orgasmic)

Isn't that why auto-asphysiation has an appeal? The idea that the orgasm is sooooo much better it's worth risking death for the experience? There's an aspect of this in hardcore drug abuse too, the high so great it's worth risking death for.

Anyhow, now that I've cubbyholed this piece of filth I think I can stop thinking about it. Honestly, there's lots worse out there than a cartoon fantasy involving sexual sadism and cannabalism. Like real sexual sadism and cannabalism. Are they related? Well, yeah, the real cannibals probably keep collections of this sort of crap. But I'd guess that for at least 99% of the Dolcett readers this stuff stays strictly fantasy. (I sure hope it does)

Last edited by bibliophage; 12-10-2003 at 01:24 AM.
#24
Old 12-09-2003, 06:20 AM
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Broomstick has a point. But that doesn't cure my nausea.
#25
Old 12-09-2003, 07:19 PM
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Dolcett is bad enough - what really grosses me out and makes me want to hide under my covers and gibber are actual atrocities one can see on the TV or read on the Internet or in the newspapers. There are some very sick, twisted people out there, no doubt of that.
#26
Old 12-09-2003, 10:42 PM
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Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but I think I'll go have some ice cream.
#27
Old 12-09-2003, 11:07 PM
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And balloons, can we have ballons too? *sob*
#28
Old 12-10-2003, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Revtim
I worked with a guy named Bernd Brandes, who's was sexually driven to be killed and eaten.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3286721.stm

If that can happen, being a Dolcett fan is possible.
You worked with him?
#29
Old 12-10-2003, 01:08 AM
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What are you, some kinda vegetarian?
#30
Old 12-10-2003, 01:26 AM
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We can discuss the psychology of this sort of thing, but I don't think we really want a direct link to it from the SDMB. Accordingly I have deleted the links. Anyone wishing to see what the fuss is about can always Google it.

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#31
Old 12-10-2003, 03:03 AM
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All I have to say is don't knock it till you've tried it. Until YOU'VE been spitted and slowly roasted and eaten, you have no right to condemn others for enjoying that activity.

::wanders off to look for long pointy poles::
#32
Old 12-10-2003, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1920s Style Death Ray
You worked with him?
Yeah, here's a thead I made about it: http://boards.academicpursuits.us/sdmb/...hreadid=174724
#33
Old 12-10-2003, 08:59 AM
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Okay, I know someone who's a Dolcett fan. I only knew her online not in real life, but enough so that I believe she was an attractive young woman who had some unusual fantasies. She was a major fan of Dolcett's work; enough so that she had a website archive of his art and regularly corresponded with him (which is very rare - "Dolcett" is extremely reluctant to give out his real name much less contact information). This woman was even the inspiration for some of Dolcett's pictures and served as a model for some of the victims in his art. She had a FAQ where she basically said, yes, she really was aroused by this kind of thing, and no, she had never been abused, raped or tortured in real life and had no desire to be. Both the woman and the website are no longer online.

As for my personal opinions, I've seen Dolcett's work. He's a talented artist, his subject matter is not something I get turned on by, but I don't get worked up over comic book characters being abused.
#34
Old 12-11-2003, 05:31 AM
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Well, see, that gal is one of the fanticizers. She doesn't really want to suffer agonies.

Is it that much different from fantasies of being a ninja assassin? There are a lot of folks who are into that particular fantasy - they read books, maybe study martial arts, buy a costume - but never have any intention of actually hunting and killing someone. Or fantasies of being a "licensed to kill" James Bond secret agent. Or a Roman gladiator. None of those sorts would be particularly nice to meet up with in real life, none the less, the fantasy exists.

Or how about a slasher/gorefest movie? In a society where the Texas Chainsaw Massacre is a big enough commercial success to justify a remake, can we really condemn Dolcett fans? Which is really worse - a cinematic spectacle involving explicit torture and slicing up people with saws, or a "graphic novel" format of women submitting to being spitted and enjoying it?

Or is it the idea that women enjoy being spitted, roasted, and eaten what gives folks that extra-special taste of nausea?

Quote:
originally posted by Excalibre
All I have to say is don't knock it till you've tried it. Until YOU'VE been spitted and slowly roasted and eaten, you have no right to condemn others for enjoying that activity.
As soon as you produce a first-person, factual account of someone who has been throught the entire process and enjoyed it, start to finish, I'm going to have to condemn the practice, I'm sorry. My personal ethics require that everyone participating in a sexual act must be adult, sane/intelligent enough to give consent, freely consenting, and not get hurt. Being killed most definitely qualifies as "hurt", even if the victim is "consenting".

About that German cannibal.... I've read a couple reports where he, apparently, expresses dissatisfaction that the reality of preparing and eating his victim did not match his fantasy. I've also read that Jeffrey Dahmer expressed the same sentiment. I've heard that child molesters also frequently are disappointed with the reality, which never matches their fantasy. Apparently, molesters frequently have fantasies of the child reciprocating their feelings of arousal and "love" - and it just doesn't happen. It can't happen, because children aren't physically or emotionally or hormonally ready for that stimulus.

Let's consider those Dolcett girls again... even if reluctant at first, in most of the stories the submit, and even get some erotic thrill/orgasm/some sort of pleasure from the torture. Now, let's say Mr. Twisted And Sick snaps and decides to do this in real life, seeks out a girl, and does the deed. Well, for darn sure NO ONE is going to get off on really being spitted. Sorry, just ain't gonna happen. It's conceivable they could be spitted or even gutted and live long enough to be hoisted over roasting coals, but there is no way in hell the victim is going to enjoy this on any level. (particularly if gutted - doing so would destroy the nerves involved in sexual arousal, thereby rendering the victim incapable of sexual feeling) So Mr. Twisted And Sick's fantasy of having a voluptuous women f*ck a spit shoved through her while getting all dreamy about being turned into dinner just ain't never gonna happen. The reality will never match the fantasy. It can't.

And you just know there's someone out there considering doing this for real. There just has to be. We seem to have every other kind of pervert, and Mr. Dahmer and Herr Meiwes demonstrate that there certainly are sexual cannaibals out there.

So... how do you tell the difference between a horror fantasy fan - someone who likes to see Freddy Kruger do his thing, or Jason, and also likes to look at Dolcet - and the really dangerous sexual predator?

I don't think it's the porn that generates these sorts of human monsters - the Countess Bathory certainly never read Dolcett, or even Bram Stoker for that matter, but enjoyed torturing and killing people and used to bathe in blood on a regular basis. Vlad Tepes certainly never read Dolcett - heck, I don't know if he could read at all - but gained quite a reputation for impaling people. By the thousands.

No doubt there are folks out there would take the stance we should just ban all this stuff -- but while it might be giving some people ideas, I'm not convinced most of these folks didn't have this idea, or something similar, before they got interested in this sort of porn. Does it function as an outlet for some of these folks, keeping them from indulging in real life, or does it encourage them to go out and try it?

When does porn (or horror) go from entertainment to something actually harmful?
#35
Old 12-11-2003, 02:00 PM
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Just to be clear, I WAS kidding when I said that. That said, I don't care if people fantasize about this - people have bizarre fantasies. That's nothing new. If you're not into Dolcett's stuff, don't read it. If you are, just make sure you remember that it's not like reality.
#36
Old 12-11-2003, 02:23 PM
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Yeah, I kinda figured you were kidding. But there's always some wag who will pop and say "but you have to be tolerant of other people." Tolerant? Up to a point. I'd be interested in dissecting an ethical system that allows killing other people for sexual pleasure.

Anyhow, I agree - if you ain't into it, don't look. Far as I'm concerned, it was educational on a certain level, but I don't think I need to look in that that particular closet again.
#37
Old 12-11-2003, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Little Nemo
Both the woman and the website are no longer online.
Was she eaten?
#38
Old 12-11-2003, 05:05 PM
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Re: How could anyone find this arousing? (Ridiculously non-worksafe links, and maybe

Quote:
Originally posted by Colinmarshall My question is this: what makes someone into a Dolcett fan? What in the world would need to go wrong, developmentally, for someone to enjoy this sort of thing? [/B]
Why are you sure it is learned and not innate?

Quote:
Originally posted by Little NemoBoth the woman and the website are no longer online.
I miss Karyn
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