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Old 03-04-2004, 10:25 AM
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Purim Fest 1946 -- fact or fiction?

I've often seen reported on the Net (so it must be true... ) and other places that when Julius Streicher was hung in 1946, his last words were "Purim Fest 1946!" I'm curious, however, as to how true this actually is. Most of the reports I've seen cite Newsweek from October of that year, but I haven't actually seen a copy of the magazine.

Did Streicher really shout this at his execution?

Zev Steinhardt
Old 03-04-2004, 10:34 AM
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Ohh, that Julius Streicher. Now at least I know who you're asking about. -not that it gets us to an answer here.
Old 03-04-2004, 01:04 PM
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According to the net reports, the exact citation is "October 28, 1946, Foreign Affairs Section, page 46". So, anybody got any old Newsweeks?
Old 03-04-2004, 03:53 PM
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Captain Amazing: As a matter of fact, I happen to be sitting in a nicely-appointed research library as I type.



Indeed, Newsweek does attribute the phrase "Purimfest, 1946" to one Julius Streicher, as he was facing the gallows following his conviction at Nuremburg. He also said things like "Heil Hitler!" and, to the American guard, "The Bolsheviks will hang you one day.", so he wasn't anyone's friend at the occasion. Incidentally, the same article mentions Goebbels' suicide.

(His last words were reportedly "Adele, my dear wife." And there was some dispute over whether his neck broke or he briefly strangled to death.)

So, does anyone have an idea of why he'd say that, or, indeed, what the phrase means?
Old 03-04-2004, 04:07 PM
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I can shed some light on that Delreth.

Purim is a Jewish holiday which will be celebrated this coming Sunday (which is what brought this to mind in the first place). The holiday commemorates the story as recounted in the book of Esther. In the story, the Jews are about to be wiped out by a plot hatched by the king's right-hand man Haman, but in the end are saved by a seemingly odd set of circumstances. Among the occurences in the Purim story are the hanging of Haman's 10 sons after they were killed in battle [as an aside: hanging (when done) in Judaism was always done post-death, not as a means of execution].

There were 11 defendents who were going to be executed on that October day in 1946 (you see where this is going, don't you?). However, Goebbels "escaped" by swallowing a cyanide pill the night before the execution; so ten men were hung that day. It could well be that Streicher was well-aware of the story and saw the similarity [10 enemies of the Jews being hung on one day] and made the comment (for whatever reason).

In another one of those odd-if-you-don't-believe, appropriate-if-you-do-believe coincidences, if you open up an Esther scroll as is used on Purim, you will find that in the verse detailing the names of Haman's sons, there are three letters that are written smaller than the others. Those three letters are Tuv, Shin and Zayin. Those letters form the numerical value (in Hebrew, numbers are written using letters) of the year 5707, the year that the executions took place.

Zev Steinhardt
Old 03-07-2013, 03:25 PM
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There's more to this story, Zev.

Haman had a daughter, who died when she fell or jumped from a widow. Goebbels (the "eleventh son") was rumored to be a cross dresser.

The book of Esther does not have G-d's name written anywhere in it. According to Jewish tradition, this is because the miracle was not obvious. Rather, G-d's work was "disguised" in the course of seemingly natural events. Likewise, reference to G-d is disguised and written as "The King." After the fighting had subsided, Queen Esther makes the following request (Esther 9:13): "If it please the King, let it be granted to the Jews that are in Shushan to do tomorrow in accordance with today's decree, and let Haman's ten sons be hanged on the gallows." (emphasis added)

The numerical value of those letters you mentioned actually add up to 707. In the Hebrew calendar, the year is commonly written that way. The 5 is assumed (similar to the way the year 1996 would be written as '96). The year 5707 was the 6th time the number 707 had occurred (once every millennium). In the same verse detailing the names of Haman's sons, there is one letter that is written larger than the others - the letter vav, which has a numerical value of 6.

There's no such thing as coincidence.

Chayim

Last edited by LeChayim; 03-07-2013 at 03:26 PM.
Old 03-07-2013, 03:48 PM
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Was Hermann Goering a cross dresser too because zev_steinhardt was mistaken and it was Goering who committed suicide on the eve of his execution. Goebbels killed himself and his family in the Fuehrer Bunker.

And, yes, if you have to go to such lengths to get your numerology to work then I'm pretty sure it's a coincidence.
Old 03-07-2013, 03:48 PM
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One additional footnote:

The hangings took place on 10/16/46, which was the Jewish holiday of Hoshanah Rabah (the 21st of Tishrei), when G-d's decree, issued for all humanity on Yom Kippur, is finalized.

Chayim
Old 03-07-2013, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by LeChayim View Post
One additional footnote:

The hangings took place on 10/16/46, which was the Jewish holiday of Hoshanah Rabah (the 21st of Tishrei), when G-d's decree, issued for all humanity on Yom Kippur, is finalized.

Chayim
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 74westy View Post
Was Hermann Goering a cross dresser too because zev_steinhardt was mistaken and it was Goering who committed suicide on the eve of his execution. Goebbels killed himself and his family in the Fuehrer Bunker.

And, yes, if you have to go to such lengths to get your numerology to work then I'm pretty sure it's a coincidence.
Goering was the alleged cross-dresser, not Goebbels. He definitely wore some fabulous makeup on occasion and could really rock a pair of lederhosen.
Old 03-07-2013, 04:22 PM
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My recollection is that Streicher had become more or less nuttier than a fruit cake.

"briefly strangled to death" I don't believe there is any such thing as breifly strangling to death. One can be briefly strangled or strangled to death which is not brief.
Old 03-07-2013, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 74westy View Post
Was Hermann Goering a cross dresser too because zev_steinhardt was mistaken and it was Goering who committed suicide on the eve of his execution. Goebbels killed himself and his family in the Fuehrer Bunker.

And, yes, if you have to go to such lengths to get your numerology to work then I'm pretty sure it's a coincidence.
First of all, yes 74westy, I (and Zev) stand corrected. It was Goering who killed himself. And it was Goering who was rumored to be a cross dresser. Zev apparently mistook the two, and I, being familiar with the story, didn't double check the name.

Secondly, I'm not sure what lengths you're referring to. The year 5707 is commonly written as (תש"ז) (707) It had occurred 6 times, and this was the 6th time. Simple.

Finally, If you choose to believe it's a coincidence, that's ok with me. Fact is, Streicher did yell "Purimfest 1946," and it wasn't anywhere near Purim. Fact is, those letters had been written in that weird way for two thousand years, and no one knew why. Fact is, Esther made the peculiar request.

As far as I'm concerned, there are no coincidences. But if you think there are, this is not just a coincidence. It's a huge, unbelievable, incredible coincidence.

As I said, believe what you want.
Old 03-07-2013, 04:56 PM
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I'm so out of responding to kiruv stuff, so I'm not exactly in the iyun, as LeChayim might say....but awhile back, I found this article helpful. Clarifies some of the facts surrounding this "coincidence/divine miracle."

But folks can believe what they want. For he who has no questions, there are no answers...or however the old phrase goes.

Last edited by Bpelta; 03-07-2013 at 04:56 PM.
Old 03-07-2013, 04:59 PM
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Nine years to be corrected. That's got to be some kind of record around here.

Of course, there are also dissimilarities between the two events as well.

The sons of Haman were not killed by hanging. They were already hung after their death. The Nazis, on the other hand, died by hanging.

The Nazis were not all brothers. The sons of Haman, obviously, were.

Quote:
The hangings took place on 10/16/46, which was the Jewish holiday of Hoshanah Rabah (the 21st of Tishrei), when G-d's decree, issued for all humanity on Yom Kippur, is finalized.
Of course, I don't need to point out to you that that only applies to beinonim (people who are neither good nor bad -- i.e. your average type person). Do you believe that the Nazi leaders were beinonim?

Zev Steinhardt

Last edited by zev_steinhardt; 03-07-2013 at 04:59 PM. Reason: fixed coding
Old 03-07-2013, 05:07 PM
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I see no reason to doubt Streicher was aware of the holiday of Purim.

It is entirely possible, though, that he is merely aware that Haman, entrant n in the Jew Genocide game, was ultimately hanged, and that the coincidence of the total number of sentenced is just that, a coincidence. Unless, of course, God has no coincidents, and those seekers of Sod--the interpretive layer concerned with the secrets--are onto something.

Gulf War I ended on Purim....

Also, the old joke: Streicher once asked a Jew on what day he would die. The Jew thinks and answers sagely, a Jewish holiday.
Streicher: which holiday?
The one on the day you die.
Old 03-07-2013, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Derleth View Post
(His last words were reportedly "Adele, my dear wife." And there was some dispute over whether his neck broke or he briefly strangled to death.)

So, does anyone have an idea of why he'd say that, or, indeed, what the phrase means?
Well, you see, he had a wife named Adele who was presumably dear to him.

Glad I could clear that up after all these years!
Old 03-07-2013, 06:36 PM
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My only cite for this is from among the many stories my dad, who grew up around career soldiers, would retell. According to the story that went around, Streicher* had the hood over his head and the hangman's knot placed properly behind his ear, when he said something that the executioner didn't take lightly. The knot was then deftly moved in front of his ear.

After some agony at the end of the rope, another sergeant had to go behind the underside of the gallows that was screened-off by black canvas. It was pretty obvious that he then grabbed Streicher's ankles and yanked until his neck broke.

*I can't hear this name in my head without automatically saying "I don't think I'll ever be over Macho Grande."
Old 03-07-2013, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Amazing View Post
According to the net reports, the exact citation is "October 28, 1946, Foreign Affairs Section, page 46". So, anybody got any old Newsweeks?
Quote:
"Only Julius Streicher went without dignity. He had to be pushed across the floor, wild-eyed and screaming: 'Heil Hitler!' Mounting the steps he cried out: 'And now I go to God.' He stared at the witnesses facing the gallows and shouted" 'Purimfest, 1946.' (Purim is a Jewish feast). Then to the American officer he cried: 'The Bolsheviks will hang you one day.' He spoke again from beneath the black hood: 'Adele, my dear wife'--and plunged through the trap. A groan came from inside the scaffold. Critics suggested aferward that Streicher was clumsily hanged and that the rope may have strangled him instead of breaking his neck."
https://evernote.com/shard/s1/no...b-372936df55bb
Old 03-07-2013, 06:50 PM
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ETA: funny how they hanged this asshole, but spared Albert Speer. Maybe courtroom contrition outweighs comparative magnitude as far as crimes against humanity go.
Old 03-07-2013, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by zev_steinhardt View Post
Nine years to be corrected. That's got to be some kind of record around here.
That's hilarious! I actually hadn't noticed the date. I was doing some research on the subject and came across this discussion. Now look what I've (re)started.


"Of course, I don't need to point out to you that that only applies to beinonim (people who are neither good nor bad -- i.e. your average type person). Do you believe that the Nazi leaders were beinonim?"


Good point. But the fate of the wicked are immediately decreed, not necessarily carried out (plenty of evil people die in the middle of the year).

Nevertheless, Hoshanah Rabah is a significant date for us in terms of G-d's judgement. Perhaps it was a sign that the verdict upon us - to witness the hanging - was finalized (יוודע בגויים לעינינו - נקמת דם עבדיך השפוך)
Old 03-07-2013, 07:39 PM
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So let me see if I understand

1. He actually said this

2. He at least kinda got it right but probably was commenting on the fact that the "Jews" were getting their revenge for his actions and words, in a round about way

3. He was an incredible a-hole, I followed some of the links from wiki to images/translations of his magazine

Capt
Old 03-08-2013, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by zev_steinhardt View Post
Nine years to be corrected. That's got to be some kind of record around here.
Hah! I was corrected after eleven years for using the wrong verb.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:19 AM
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This problem wouldn't happen with Hebrew, but in English, people executed by hanging are "hanged by the neck until dead." An inanimate object as a picture are hung on the wall.

Dead bodies are inanimate. Were Haman's sons hung or hanged?
Old 03-08-2013, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by carnivorousplant View Post
This problem wouldn't happen with Hebrew, but in English, people executed by hanging are "hanged by the neck until dead." An inanimate object as a picture are hung on the wall.

Dead bodies are inanimate. Were Haman's sons hung or hanged?


I always get this wrong. It's worse with me on lighted or lit (fire or spotlight).
Old 03-08-2013, 09:04 PM
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ETA: funny how they hanged this asshole, but spared Albert Speer. Maybe courtroom contrition outweighs comparative magnitude as far as crimes against humanity go.
Regardless of whether Speer deserved to die or not, I don't think anyone needs to take a backseat to Streicher in regard to crimes against humanity.
Old 03-10-2013, 04:55 PM
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Am I the only one who's surprised to find that "fest" was in [somewhat] common usage in the 1940s? I think of it as a 1990s (roughly) phenomenon.
Old 03-10-2013, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Cayuga View Post
Am I the only one who's surprised to find that "fest" was in [somewhat] common usage in the 1940s? I think of it as a 1990s (roughly) phenomenon.
Not if you consider that Streicher was German and that(presumably - as I don't know a great amount of German) that it the natural German word for a "celebration of Purim" would be Purimfest.
Old 03-10-2013, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Cayuga View Post
Am I the only one who's surprised to find that "fest" was in [somewhat] common usage in the 1940s? I think of it as a 1990s (roughly) phenomenon.
Presumably he was speaking German.
Old 03-10-2013, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Cayuga View Post
Am I the only one who's surprised to find that "fest" was in [somewhat] common usage in the 1940s? I think of it as a 1990s (roughly) phenomenon.
I was, until it occurred to me that Oktoberfest has been around for over 200 years.
Old 03-10-2013, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Asympotically fat View Post
Not if you consider that Streicher was German and that(presumably - as I don't know a great amount of German) that it the natural German word for a "celebration of Purim" would be Purimfest.
Wait. The Nazi war criminal was German? Well, that explains it then.
Old 03-18-2014, 04:59 AM
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It's mentioned in the 1946 Eyewitness account given by INS reporter Kingsbury Smith: http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...s10_16_46.html

Last edited by AlizaGryn; 03-18-2014 at 05:01 AM.
Old 03-18-2014, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by zev_steinhardt View Post
I've often seen reported on the Net (so it must be true... ) and other places that when Julius Streicher was hung in 1946, his last words were "Purim Fest 1946!" I'm curious, however, as to how true this actually is. Most of the reports I've seen cite Newsweek from October of that year, but I haven't actually seen a copy of the magazine.

Did Streicher really shout this at his execution?

Zev Steinhardt
IIRC, Streicher didn't shout it, he said it to whoever it was that was walking him up the scaffold. Could be wrong, tho.
Old 03-18-2014, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by carnivorousplant View Post
This problem wouldn't happen with Hebrew, but in English, people executed by hanging are "hanged by the neck until dead." An inanimate object as a picture are hung on the wall.

Dead bodies are inanimate. Were Haman's sons hung or hanged?
"And they was right, but they weren't dead."

You get the idea.
Old 03-18-2014, 11:51 AM
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