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#1
Old 04-25-2005, 11:56 AM
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D&D card games? What exactly are these guys playing at?

Every weekend when I visit the local Shopping Centre (it's a Mall, people) I pass a bunch of around 20 teenagers* sitting in a quiet corner playing some esoteric game with collector-cards (substitute the correct description here). No dice or playing-boards are used and many of the cards don't seem to be dealt as such but stay in their protective booklets until needed. Some of the games seem to be interesting enough to draw an audience.

What is it these people are up to? They all look pretty engrossed.


* Mostly but not entirely chaps. Dress tends towards sub-goth (well, not reall goth at all compared to some of the the MM lookalikes you see, however...) or a general geek/couldn't-care-less look.
#2
Old 04-25-2005, 12:09 PM
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You sure it was D & D and not Magic? Not saying D & D card games don't exist, but they're not anything I've ever played and Magic is pretty popular.

Here's a shot of some Magic cards
http://hbdgames.com/imgs/magic_cards.jpg
#3
Old 04-25-2005, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belladonna
You sure it was D & D and not Magic?
Not sure at all, they could be anything. I just thought (probably very wrongly) that D&D covered everything. There are certainly a lot of different cards, it's not like a deck of 52 I'm guessing there could be hundreds.

I am totally clueless about this whole scene, my main question is how a game based on these sorts of cards can work - surely whoever has the biggest/most powerfull(?) set of cards wins?
#4
Old 04-25-2005, 12:22 PM
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Collectible Card Games - I'm sure someone will be along with a better answer than mine while I'm typing this.

There are a number of them. They tend to have a lot of overlap in their player base with the people who play roleplaying games.

Yes, having the biggest selection of the best cards, and the most money to buy new cards can help quite a bit in many of them.

There are also non-collectible card games, though, where money's not a factor.
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#5
Old 04-25-2005, 12:23 PM
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While there are countless numbers of fantasy/sci-fi collectable card games on the market, my guess is that they were either playing Magic:the Gathering (favored by the 'older' folks as the first of all of the CCG) or Yu-Gi-Oh (preferred by kids).

The best way to figure out EXACTLY what game it was would be to identify the cards, either by the card names, what the backs looked like, what some of the text on the cards might have been, etc.
#6
Old 04-25-2005, 12:37 PM
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Magic: The Gathering is quite likely. Yu-Gi-Oh is pretty popular right now too. It tends towards a younger group that Magic, but there are quite a few teenagers and even people into their early twenties who play (At least, here were at the league I used to play at).

That said, there are a lot of possibilities. Every single anime you see one TV probably has it's own card game, and there's also some other lesser known games in the fold--stuff like Munchkins (which is the closest to a D&D card game as I'm aware of). But MTG and Yu-Gi-Oh are the most likely.

Quote:
collector-cards (substitute the correct description here).
Don't have to substitute anything. The correct terms for these types of games are CCG or TCG (for collecting card game or trading card game respectively). It can be an expensive hobby.

On to your later question--yes, having the best/most powerful cards is very helpful, but you also have to have a coherent deck. Lots of cards are made to work together in different ways. Sometimes a combination of weak single cards can be pretty powerful. And often powerful cards aren't really that powerful if you have nothing to back them up with. For example, in MTG you could put a card in your deck which gives all rats fear. Very useful--creatures with fear can only be blocked by black and artifact creatures, meaning you can directly damage your opponents life points. Artifact creatures aren't very common--a lot of decks may have a couple, but an artifact based deck is rare, and given that there's five colours and multi-colour decks are generally more difficult to play, it's a decent bet that your opponent won't have a black deck. But put that card into a deck with only one or two rats and it's pretty much worthless. So it's not just about having the cards, but also in being able to play them well. Not to mention the good old luck factor--MTG is difficult to win without enough land cards, for example, so if you're drawing mostly non-land cards, you're generally screwed.

How can they work--um, well...I can't answer that very well. Think of yourself as a general, and your deck is your army. You have creatures which you can attack and block with, and spells which you can either use to support your creatures, attack or defend. Some games also have cards which give you energy to use in summoning creatures and spells (MTG) or using attacks (Pokemon). There are other games which work differently--Munchkins, for example, works around giving yourself good gear and being stronger than the monster you draw to fight against.

I'm not sure if that answers your question or not. It's kind of hard to describe without knowing which game we're talking about.
#7
Old 04-25-2005, 01:24 PM
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You've received some good answers concerning CCGs/TCGs. I sell them in my bookstore, and I'm a Magic: the Gathering player myself. Magic tends to attract adults and teens. Yu-Gi-Oh! is popular with ages 10-15, Pokemon with younger kids. There's also Neopets, Cyberpunk, Dot Hack, and many more.

Dungeons and Dragons, on the other hand, is an RPG (role-playing game). You could really call it the grand-daddy of its genre. I started playing it in 1976, and it had already been around a little while then. They tend to use dice, books, charts, miniatures, and lots of other props, too. There are many, many RPGs around now. The basic combat and movement system used in D&D has been codified and released as a generic platform called D20 (referring to a 20-sided die), which is the basis of a lot of different games.

To make things even more complex, there are computer and online versions of both CCGs and RPGs.

I think the easiest way to find out what game they're playing is just to ask them. The majority of gamers I know would be thrilled to tell you all about their game of choice.
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#8
Old 04-25-2005, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
surely whoever has the biggest/most powerfull(?) set of cards wins?
Having many cards in your deck is generally a disadvantage, not an advantage. If you have too many cards in your deck, then it becomes that much less likely that you'll draw the one you want. One can end up drawing many cards which give the energy to cast spells, but few good spells to cast with them, or drawing powerful but expensive spells before you have enough energy. Or spells which can be useful and which you can afford, but which just aren't useful at that particular moment. Smaller decks have less randomness in what you end up drawing, so this is less of a problem. Most games have a minimum allowed deck size (in Magic, it's 60), and good players will generally try to stick to that minimum. You lose if you run out of cards, but this is almost never an issue: A game that goes through half the deck is a pretty long one.

If they were looking at cards in protective sleeves in folders, they weren't involved in a game at the time. They might have been bragging about valuable cards they own, or they might have been discussing ways to use particular cards, or which cards to put into a new deck. Constructing a deck of cards which work well together is a major part of the game.

And there are some cards which are more useful or powerful than others, and these are typically more valuable as well. But this also depends on rarity: There are some cards which aren't too useful, but are valuable because they're rare, and there are some cards which are very useful but very common, and therefore cheap. Whenever you get a new pack of cards, you're probably going to get a few rare or powerful ones, but you never know which ones, so you might get some that don't work well with your other cards. Individual cards can also be bought, sold, or traded, like any collectible. There's definitely an advantage to buying more or better cards to make your deck out of, but money is not a guaranteed win. I once saw a game where one of the players had obviously individually bought every single card in his deck, and had about $500 worth of cards in play alone, but who used them so clumsily that he ended up doing more damage to himself than to his opponent.
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#9
Old 04-25-2005, 09:56 PM
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I used to play Vampire the Masquarade as a college student. I spent something like $12 +$20-the amount I should have paid for my share of Chinese food one evening to buy them. When I sold them a year and a half later, I got $15.10.

Yes, there are stories behind those prices. Neither set of prices has much to do with how much the cards were actually worth, especially individually. Some of my opponents spent much larger amounts of money, and won more frequently. Whether that was causal or not is hard to tell. Strategy is really not my thing. Plus, all my opponents started playing at least a year before they taught me. Even before I got "sucked in" I watched an occassional game. I'd usually take a book or something, and only pay attention some of the time, but the conversation that surrounded the games could be quite fun. I had silly friends.

In Vampire, you have a set of tokens that represent your life points. You can (and must) use some of them to bring cards representing vampires out of your crypt. You then use them to attack your prey, and defend against your predator. (Each player has one prey and one predator at any time. If you kill your prey, their prey becomes your prey). If there are 4 or more players, you are "allies" with anyone who is not your predator or your prey.

Imagine a group of six players,- ABCDEF. A's prey is B, B's prey is C,etc. If there is a vote over something which affects player B, players D and F will probably support B, and player E might. Players A and C will probably vote against B. (Enemy of my enemy is my friend--except when one player is too powerful, or things get more complicated. People sometimes hold grudges. ) If the next vote in the game is over something which affects C, E and A will probably support C, and player F might. B and D will probably vote against C. Thus, allies constantly shift. And that's assuming no one scrambles the players.

I once had my predator get really mad at my prey, because I killed his most powerful vampire, and my prey wouldn't support a bloodhunt. A bloodhunt would have killed my most powerful vampire. I only put it at risk because my prey had promised to support me in a bloodhunt.

Umm, I have a suspicion that the second half of this post only makes sense to people who are familiar with how CCG's work- and even then there may be confusion. I've played Magic like twice, and did horrendously, because I didn't understand the strategy, didn't know what my cards did, and couldn't get used to the fact that Magic has an entirely different structure than Vampire. (The whole predator, prey, tapping cards you've used thing works differently).

To a large extent, games like these are most fascinating to the players themselves, not to outsiders.
#10
Old 04-26-2005, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
You then use them to attack your prey, and defend against your predator. (Each player has one prey and one predator at any time. If you kill your prey, their prey becomes your prey)
That right there is a big difference with Magic. A Magic game typically only has two players: It's possible to play with more, but some aspects of the game become seriously broken, and some house rules have to be created to deal with various quirks. Diplomacy does, of course, become an important part of the game with more than two players, but there's nothing in the rules that calls for a vote (since voting wouldn't make sense in a standard 2-player game). The largest Magic game I've seen had five players, so if your twenty teenagers were all playing Magic, they were probably paired off into about ten separate games.
#11
Old 04-26-2005, 04:27 AM
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Thanks for the excellent replies people, it looks like they're playing MTG. I suspected that there was a whole different world in there -- and there were bound to be rules like
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayn_Newell
creatures with fear can only be blocked by black and artifact creatures
that's got to be the whole fun of it.

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Quote:
To a large extent, games like these are most fascinating to the players themselves, not to outsiders
#12
Old 04-26-2005, 05:13 AM
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I never got those games until I played Munchkin Fu last Saturday. Admittedly it's a parody of D&D, but it's funny, and very addictive.

Any game with a CHEAT card (which lets you do anything you want to) has to be fun.
#13
Old 04-26-2005, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishgirl
I never got those games until I played Munchkin Fu last Saturday. Admittedly it's a parody of D&D, but it's funny, and very addictive.

Any game with a CHEAT card (which lets you do anything you want to) has to be fun.
I agree. I wish I could find a grop to play with more often. I especially like the following rule--
Quote:
You may also use only one headgear, one suit of armor, one set of footgear, and two "hand" items (or one "two hands" item), unless you have cards or special abilities that let you carry more or the other players don't catch you
(emphasis mine)
#14
Old 04-26-2005, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Small Clanger
I am totally clueless about this whole scene, my main question is how a game based on these sorts of cards can work - surely whoever has the biggest/most powerfull(?) set of cards wins?
As others have said, the rules of CCGs can be very complicated, and a large part of the strategy in any CCG is finding "an Angle." You figure out a set of cards that work really well together because the special powers of the cards exploit some feature of the rules in a really effective or (even better) unexpected way. When somebody's discovered an Angle, then the other players try to find a way to "break" it. They might even design a deck that's built specifically to defeat one other specific deck. A lot of the enjoyment of the game comes from this kind of give-and-take.

The CCGs turn out to be strangely social, even if the players sometimes seem to be communicating exclusively in grunts, hoots, and "yo mamma" jokes.
#15
Old 04-26-2005, 08:38 AM
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To re-answer another question, money helps a lot with MTG (and presumably the other CCG's I haven't played), and skill helps a lot (especially skill in deck-construction). Someone with both is largely unbeatable. Someone with neither is going to be screwed. But good play can beat someone who has spent a mint on his deck, especially since chance plays a large part in any given round of play.

The other thing is that there are rules to avoid this problem. Tournaments typically have house of standard variant rules disallowing certain powerful cards that would otherwise be legal or cards from older editions that have been determined to unbalance play.

--Cliffy
#16
Old 04-26-2005, 01:19 PM
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Another way of evening out the wealth is to play a tournament where you can't bring your own cards, called a "sealed deck" tournament. These are common in the Magic world. Typically each player receives a "tournament pack" of 75 cards, and three "booster packs" of 15 cards each. The players sit in a circle, and each open a booster pack. They take a card and pass the remaining 14 to the left. This is repeated until all 15 cards have been taken. Then they open the next booster pack, take a card, and pass the remainder the other direction.

Now, each player has 120 cards: 75 that came in their tournament pack, and 45 that they selected in the booster draft. They build the best deck they can out of those cards and play. The playing field is completely level. The winner is the one with the best deck-building and game-playing skills, with a luck factor thrown in as well.

I've played multi-player Magic: the Gathering games, and I tend not to enjoy them as much. Everyone just gangs up on the player they perceive as the strongest. When that player is dead, they work on the next one.
#17
Old 04-26-2005, 01:37 PM
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It also could have been L5R (Legend of the Five Rings), which is pretty popular in my group of friends. I don't really know that much about it, just throwing that out there as an idea.
And if it were D&D they would have had lots of dice and no cards.

I blame my boyfriend and gfloyd for the fact that I know this stuff.
#18
Old 04-26-2005, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisibleWombat
The majority of gamers I know would be thrilled to tell you all about their game of choice.
Incessantly.

(I keed, I keed. Sort of. Gamer for 20+ years, here...but hey, it is true... )
#19
Old 04-26-2005, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos
(since voting wouldn't make sense in a standard 2-player game).
I'm not entirely sure why I feel it is so important that you understand this detail properly, given the extremely low likelihood of your encountering a game of Vampire, but I can't resist the opportunity to explain a little more.

Voting is almost never a straight one player- one vote situation. Political decks are more common in larger player games- partly due to cards that say things like "This card allows you to take 2X-1 blood from the player of your choice and give it to 2 or more players where X = the number of people playing"

But also, in VtM, a player controls the actions of several different vampires (2-4 being the most common, though players sometimes have more- usually smaller vampires or fewer- especially if they are not doing well). Some vampires, usually higher powered ones have votes. This means that anytime a vote is called, the player gets two votes for the Prince of Paris. Also, the card I described above which allows a player to call for a vote would be worth 2 votes, and sometimes other cards provide votes.

In the illustration where my predator wanted a bloodhunt on my vampire- part of the reason he got mad was because my prey had a card which allowed him three extra votes that he wasn't playing (because the vote was going my way without it) but that he had promised me if I needed them (and he likely had more votes in his hand. That guy usually did.)
#20
Old 04-26-2005, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Podkayne
As others have said, the rules of CCGs can be very complicated, and a large part of the strategy in any CCG is finding "an Angle." You figure out a set of cards that work really well together because the special powers of the cards exploit some feature of the rules in a really effective or (even better) unexpected way.
So you're saying the big appeal of CCGs is the rampant munchkinism?
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#21
Old 04-26-2005, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjung
So you're saying the big appeal of CCGs is the rampant munchkinism?
Are you suggesting there is something to CCGs other than munckinism?
#22
Old 04-27-2005, 03:54 AM
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All this time I thought people played them for the art.
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#23
Old 04-27-2005, 01:05 PM
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For the record, Magic: The Gathering is a truly brilliant and fun game. I've been playing it nonstop for nearly 10 years now, and boy are my arms tired.
#24
Old 05-03-2005, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisibleWombat
Typically each player receives a "tournament pack" of 75 cards, and three "booster packs" of 15 cards each. The players sit in a circle, and each open a booster pack. They take a card and pass the remaining 14 to the left. This is repeated until all 15 cards have been taken. Then they open the next booster pack, take a card, and pass the remainder the other direction.

Now, each player has 120 cards: 75 that came in their tournament pack, and 45 that they selected in the booster draft.
Minor nitpick, but you're conflating the two different types of Magic limited play. The first is "sealed deck" in which you get 1 Tourney pack and 2 boosters for a total of 105 cards (rarely 1 Tp and 3 boosters for 120). The other is "draft", where you do the picking a card and passing. You end up with only 45 cards, but since you generally only need 22-24 for the average deck and you get to select cards that work well together during the draft, you can get by with that few. In fact, the average draft deck (made from the 45 cards gotten after drafting) is stronger than the average sealed deck (made from 105 cards randomly included).

Like MaxTheVool, I have a very high opinion of Magic. I've been playing for about 10 years as well. Munchkin is a great game too, but not even remotely the same. It is much simpler, for one. Munchkin : Magic as Go Fish : Duplicate Bridge.
#25
Old 05-04-2005, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthewalrus(:3=
Munchkin is a great game too, but not even remotely the same. It is much simpler, for one. Munchkin : Magic as Go Fish : Duplicate Bridge.
I wouldn't have quite put it that way. Munchkin is is a boxed game and not a Collectible Card Game. Easy to learn (play it once and you'll know all the rules), strategy is simple (depending on how treacherous your friends are), able to have two players up to however many friends you can put up with (I've had up to 10 people playing at once), and cheap (because only one person buys the set and everybody plays with it - Although there are several 'expansion' sets that add cards to the beginning deck)

Magic is also easy to learn the basic idea of the rules, but because every card or combo of cards can change the impact of the others, the strategy is NOT simple. Like iamthewalrus comparison of Bridge, people study the game to learn various strategies. Eveyone has to buy/supply their own deck and because some cards are rare or more powerfull that means having a good deck isn't (usually) cheap.

I got into Magic when it first appeared, spent about $100 on my decks and played for a year. Then I realised just how intense (read *crazy* IMHO) people were getting into it and put my decks away. Three years later I sold them for almost $1000. (All alpha and beta cards including two black lotus)

I'm a MIB for SJGames and teach people to play Munchkin at conventions and it only costs them $30 to buy the set for themself which they can play with their friends.
#26
Old 05-04-2005, 11:48 AM
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I used to play quite a lot of MtG a goodly many years ago and then put it away while I finished Grad school and law school, only to pick it back up again recently (now that I have free time) with my fiance.

You can put together an effective and fairly powerful Magic deck for under 30 bucks. It might not be a complex or evidence any stragety other than KILL IT! KILL IT QUICK!, but it'll probably work well enough. Or you can spend literally thousands of dollars putting together a deck (depending on what you want/can afford/are interested in). The first time I put it away, I ultimately made somewhere in the region of $2,500 for my card collection (used to pay post-law-school bills ).

That being said, the game the OP probably saw was likely some people playing either Magic or Legend of the Five Rings, with Magic being the more likely of the two. Of course, asking the players will net the OP not only the name of the game, but quite probably More Than They Really Wanted To Know. In my experience, CCG players will be absolutely thrilled to explain at great length to any new person evidencing actual interest

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#27
Old 05-04-2005, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthewalrus(:3=
Minor nitpick, but you're conflating the two different types of Magic limited play.
There's absolutely no reason why you can't combine a tournament deck and a draft. We do it all the time. There are many ways to play the game, and that's one of the enjoyable things about it.

One of the advantages of doing the combination is that you are much more likely to end up with enough cards to build a reasonable deck when you have the tournament deck and a draft. My store is in a small rural area, and most of the players don't even have a DCI card. We just look for ways for everyone to have fun with the game.

If this slight variant bothers you, you really wouldn't like some of the other twists we've played, like drawing random pre-built starter decks and then doing a draft to tweak them; or the multi-player variations; or swapping decks between games to better test playing skill vs. deck-building skill.
#28
Old 05-05-2005, 03:26 AM
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Is there any Magic sites where you can see what your cards are worth? I bought a few packs along the the starter set and we really didn't get off the ground with it and I just might sell them.
#29
Old 05-05-2005, 03:32 AM
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I know for a fact that it isn't all about who spent more money on their cards. I won a tournament with a deck that was worth about $50 (Library of Alexandria, Underworld Dreams, and Vexing Arcanix were my three big money cards) and my opponent in the final round had a $500+ deck (lotus, all the moxen, library, mirror universe, etc, etc) but he just wasn't a good player.

Also, it should be kept in mind that there are different tournament formats. Some tournaments allow only recently printed cards and disallow the old, expensive, overly powerful cards. This makes a more level playing field, and is also an insidious marketing strategy to keep people buying new cards as the ones from older expansion sets are no longer tournament legal.
#30
Old 05-05-2005, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeticus Rex
Is there any Magic sites where you can see what your cards are worth? I bought a few packs along the the starter set and we really didn't get off the ground with it and I just might sell them.
The one I've seen around for the longest period of time, and been reliable and all that garbage, is http://brainburst.com/.


I miss playing Magic. There aren't too many people around here that play, and I haven't bought any new cards in probably two years, anyway.
#31
Old 05-05-2005, 05:24 AM
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I used to play MtG a lot about 10 years ago, when I and all my friends were in the army and we were having a hard time getting enough people together to play D&D. Because we all saw it as sort of a low-rent alternative to roleplaying, none of us took it all that seriously. We didn't care for tournament rules or even personal decks - my friend AG kept all the cards any of us bought in a big shoebox (he also kept all our D&D material - we'd always meet at his place), and before each game we'd deal them out randomly and built a spur-of-the-moment deck. Needless to say, we didn't spend hundreds of dollars on cards.

It was great, lighthearted fun. I actually miss it a bit. I wonder what happened to that shoebox? None of the cards in there is newer than 1997, and they may be worth something these days.
#32
Old 05-05-2005, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeticus Rex
Is there any Magic sites where you can see what your cards are worth?
I don't know of any Web sites with price guides I'd really trust. The best price guide is probably Scrye magazine, published monthly and available at any card or game shop. There's a new Magic: The Gathering magazine starting up next month that will have a price guide in it, too.

Or just throw 'em up on eBay and let the market decide.
#33
Old 05-05-2005, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos
The largest Magic game I've seen had five players, so if your twenty teenagers were all playing Magic, they were probably paired off into about ten separate games.
I've been in a 50+ person game, but that is an anomaly of course (A Neutral Ground "Grand Melee" where you could only affect the players within 2 seats to your left and right, and several players spaced 5 or more apart take their turns at the same time. Fun, but silly).

If you saw a lot of cards in binders, they also were probably trading cards as well as playing.

Magic is an incredibly well designed game/phenomenon. As Chronos mentioned, one of the beautiful concepts in it is that you can't just draw your cards, hope for the powerful ones, and play them. Every card has some cost associated with it, (yes, yes, including 0-cost, nitpickers) and if you can't play the cost (usually by having certain other cards in play already that generate a resource called "mana") you can't play it. The bigger the effect of the card, the bigger the cost, so the game tends to scale up gradually and you want to draw different cards at different points in the game. (Part of the game is determining which cards are overpowered with respect to their cost. The designers do a prettty good job of balancing them these days, but mistakes do happen).

On top of that, you can't just make a deck of 60 of the same card (60 is the minimum deck size for most types of play) because with the exception of 5 cards (ok, 11 cards, nitpickers) you are not allowed more than 4 of the same card in a deck. (some older, powerful cards are restricted to 1 per deck, or outright banned)

There's also a bit of rock-paper-scissors aspect in that Card A may be very good, but some rarely used Card B totally ruins it, so if Card A is getting used a lot, other players will start packing Card B. Then the Card A players switch to Card C, which may not be outright as good as Card A, but punishes anyone playing Card B, etc...

There are dozens of CCG's on the market that followed in the footsteps of magic. Very few succeeded and are still popular. Some came and went without much notice. Some were popular for a time, then faded. Magic remains, not only because it was the first, but because it's a very, very good game.
#34
Old 05-05-2005, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisibleWombat
There's absolutely no reason why you can't combine a tournament deck and a draft. We do it all the time. There are many ways to play the game, and that's one of the enjoyable things about it.
[...]
If this slight variant bothers you, you really wouldn't like some of the other twists we've played, like drawing random pre-built starter decks and then doing a draft to tweak them; or the multi-player variations; or swapping decks between games to better test playing skill vs. deck-building skill.
Sorry, I'm so used to DCI-sanctioned formats that I assume everyone plays them. To clarify, the two formats I mentioned are officially sanctioned for rated tournament play, but many players play lots of other formats as well. The format you described sounds pretty fun, too. It would give you some nice direction for your first draft pick, rather than flailing around for the first few picks.

I wish there were a store nearby that would so some more quirky variants more often. My favorite limited variants are minimaster, in which you get only one pack, have to play all 15 cards with any number of basic land (and don't lose when you run out of cards), but each round's winners gets all their opponent's cards to add to their deck, leading to the final match being between two ultra powerful decks, and backdraft, where you try to draft the worst possible card pool, and every match you switched cards with your opponent and tried to make the best deck out of the crap they'd drafted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzoron
with the exception of 5 cards (ok, 11 cards, nitpickers) you are not allowed more than 4 of the same card in a deck.
I'm a bit embarrassed about how long it took me to figure out what card #11 was. Stupid rats.

Yeticus, you can try blackborder.com. They have a price "search engine" that checks three or four magic sites and gives you all their prices. Note that you won't be able to sell your cards for as much as the retail stores are asking.
#35
Old 05-05-2005, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthewalrus(:3=
Sorry, I'm so used to DCI-sanctioned formats that I assume everyone plays them.
We don't have a certified judge in town (I told you it's a small community). My son-in-law wanted to become a DCI judge, but he would have to do several tournaments under a level 3 judge. He checked the registry, and it appears there isn't a single level 3 judge in the whole state of Montana. *sigh*

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthewalrus(:3=
backdraft, where you try to draft the worst possible card pool, and every match you switched cards with your opponent and tried to make the best deck out of the crap they'd drafted.
That sounds really entertaining. We'll have to give that one a shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthewalrus(:3=
I'm a bit embarrassed about how long it took me to figure out what card #11 was. Stupid rats.
These last few sets have really changed rat decks, haven't they? When I saw the Relentless Rats preview, I thought they'd be fun, but after looking at the price they were going for, I gave up on that idea! My kids, between them, bought two boxes of boosters and only got two Relentless Rats cards. Uncommon? Hmmph.
#36
Old 05-05-2005, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisibleWombat
We don't have a certified judge in town (I told you it's a small community). My son-in-law wanted to become a DCI judge, but he would have to do several tournaments under a level 3 judge. He checked the registry, and it appears there isn't a single level 3 judge in the whole state of Montana. *sigh*
What you might consider is taking a trip to Washington or Oregon when there's a fairly high-level event going on, like a Pro Tour Qualifier or Grand Prix Trial (or even Pro Tour-Seattle!). Make arrangements with the Head judge ahead of time, and explain the situation. It's likely that he can help out with the main tournament, plus a couple of side drafts, and gain all the experience he needs to take the judges test and get certified in a single weekend. There would probably even be time to play in a couple of side-events. You also usually get free packs for helping out.

Cascade Games runs the tournaments in the Pacific Northwest. Tim Shields ([email protected]
) is the tournament organizer, and Tony Mayer (seatt[email protected]) is the head level 3 judge. John Carter, the M:tG Rules Manager, also makes appearances.

Learning how to judge is extremely rewarding. It also improves your game tremendously. Being able to have sanctioned events at your store means increased Friday Night Magic prize support from Wizards, and that will in turn improve the turnout at the events.

Um, end soapbox. :)
#37
Old 05-06-2005, 02:17 PM
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Location: Himalayas & California
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Is anyone here actively looking for cards? I might just give them away to my fellow dopers. I think most of my packs are 5th edition cards.....I'll have to look and maybe make a list, but I won't do it unless you guys are actually interested.
#38
Old 05-06-2005, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeticus Rex
Is anyone here actively looking for cards?
Are there Magic players that aren't actively looking for cards

Yeah, I'm looking!

And, JSexton, thank you very much for all the great information! I really appreciate it.
#39
Old 05-06-2005, 04:41 PM
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Um... I'm always looking for cards... keep me in mind.
#40
Old 05-06-2005, 04:47 PM
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He he. Agreed. I'm happy to take any unneeded cards off your hands. Off the top of my head, the only thing that I can think of out of 5th that I need is Necropotence and the painlands. But there could be others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisibleWombat
We don't have a certified judge in town (I told you it's a small community). My son-in-law wanted to become a DCI judge, but he would have to do several tournaments under a level 3 judge. He checked the registry, and it appears there isn't a single level 3 judge in the whole state of Montana. *sigh*
Actually, you don't need a DCI judge to run a DCI tournament up to 16K. See the tournament application [warning: pdf]. My local store doesn't have a DCI judge, and we run weekly 16K drafts that draw 12-20 people. You stilll need someone to be the judge and have the last word, but anyone who knows the basic rules and has access to oracle wordings and offical DCI rules in the case of having to look something up is qualified.
#41
Old 05-07-2005, 02:50 PM
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Thank you, iamthewalrus(:3=!!! I hadn't realized we could run sanctioned events without a certified judge. That's fantastic news!

How long does it usually take for them to process those applications? I think people would be thrilled if I could set it up in time for my Saviors of Kamigawa tournament on Friday, June 3rd.
#42
Old 05-07-2005, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeticus Rex
Is anyone here actively looking for cards? I might just give them away to my fellow dopers. I think most of my packs are 5th edition cards.....I'll have to look and maybe make a list, but I won't do it unless you guys are actually interested.
I definitely am. I haven't played in a while, but recently I've decided I want to get back into it... and that's when I discovered that sometime during our last move, a whole loose-leaf folder full of green and white cards went missing. Fortunately, I had about 3 decks built with most of my best cards, and I found them okay, but I lost a looooot of lands and commons. Not to mention my Unglueds.
#43
Old 05-09-2005, 03:47 PM
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I will start a thread once my stuff is together and catalogued. Not sure if I should start a separate thread now, or when I get it catalogued. Probably call it the "Somewhat Great Magic Card Giveaway" (probably in MPSIMS) since I didn't actively collect rare cards myself, just bought a few extra packs to broaden the Beginner Set packs. Is there a way to distinguish the 5th Edition cards from the Beginner Set cards? (I haven't looked at them for about a year or two.)

I think I'll get a separate email account or something to give out my mailing address once we agree on what card(s) you want and then you can mail a "Self Addressed Stamped Envelope" to me with your Doper Name and the card(s) we agreed on. We'll see if that's the best way.

Should I make this a contest? Naw, probably not. If I have multiples, I would rather distribute them to as many different Dopers as possible, especially the rare ones, IF I do indeed have any rare ones at all. For all I know, they could all be lame cards, not even worth sending the SASE for!

I'm a busy guy, but I do want to try to get this done soon. I might mention the new thread here once I get it started. Three kids, a wife, work, and coaching the kid's baseball team will do their best to thwart my efforts, but I would hate to just dump these cards in the trash or have some hobbie shop hack capitalize on them with minimal effort. My Dopers are the most deserved!

Sorry for the hijack.
#44
Old 05-09-2005, 08:17 PM
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Nitpick- Several of you have said that there is no D&D CCG. There is. AFAIK It's out of print, but it does exist- Spellfire. I doubt it's what the OP saw. But, that's not really the point is it.
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#45
Old 05-10-2005, 09:20 AM
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Yeticus, if all you bought were starter decks and boosters you will have rares. Every booster comes with 1 rare and a few uncommons, and decks will always have at least one rare in them. You might not have anything worth much, or even that useful, but you will have those rarities.

To distinguish between the two sets--look in the area between the art and the description on the right-hand side. There should be an icon of some sort. The edition sets usually have a number of the edition it is in some fashion, so on 5th edition cards you would see a '5' there. Beginner's set has a star I think (Feel free to correct me on these). Anything else and it's from one of the expansion sets.

For the rarity, look at that icon again. Black means it's a common card, silver is uncommon and rares have gold icons. Simple, eh?
#46
Old 05-10-2005, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocCathode
Nitpick- Several of you have said that there is no D&D CCG. There is. AFAIK It's out of print, but it does exist- Spellfire. I doubt it's what the OP saw. But, that's not really the point is it.
There's also another CCG out there - the name escapes me - that resolves combat like the d20 RPG system, using a d20. And let us not forget Blood Wars, the Planescape based CCG.

I still have my Spellfire, Blood Wars, Star Wars (Original), Lord of the Rings (Original), Magic the Gathering, Ani-Mayhem, and Dragonball Z CCG cards; several non-collectible card games as well, like Chrononauts and Fluxx.

I did get rid of my Star Trek CCG cards a while back, though..
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#47
Old 05-10-2005, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayn_Newell
To distinguish between the two sets--look in the area between the art and the description on the right-hand side. There should be an icon of some sort. The edition sets usually have a number of the edition it is in some fashion, so on 5th edition cards you would see a '5' there. Beginner's set has a star I think (Feel free to correct me on these). Anything else and it's from one of the expansion sets.

For the rarity, look at that icon again. Black means it's a common card, silver is uncommon and rares have gold icons. Simple, eh?
Not quite. I believe you're right about the star. But for 5th edition there was no expansion symbol. They started putting expansion symbols on the core set with 6th edition. But here's the 5th edition cardlist with rarities:
http://wizards.com/magic/generic..._checklist.txt
#48
Old 05-10-2005, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayn_Newell
For the rarity, look at that icon again. Black means it's a common card, silver is uncommon and rares have gold icons. Simple, eh?
The convention of coloring in the set symbol is a relatively recent one. If you have old cards, the symbols are all black. In some sets, there is no symbol at all.

One easy way to be sure what set a card is from is to go to magicthegathering.com and do a card search. When you find the card, it will list all sets that card was released in. Click on each set symbol to see the actual artwork of the card, and compare with what you have.
#49
Old 05-10-2005, 11:24 AM
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Ah, OK, thanks guys. I only really got into it around 6th edition, so although I had noticed some cards around with no symbols, I've mostly played with the newer sets. Now I know
#50
Old 05-10-2005, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeticus Rex
I will start a thread once my stuff is together and catalogued. Not sure if I should start a separate thread now, or when I get it catalogued. Probably call it the "Somewhat Great Magic Card Giveaway" (probably in MPSIMS) since I didn't actively collect rare cards myself, just bought a few extra packs to broaden the Beginner Set packs. Is there a way to distinguish the 5th Edition cards from the Beginner Set cards? (I haven't looked at them for about a year or two.)
Your best resource is probably the new "Gatherer" database put online by Wizards of the Coast. You can find it at gatherer.wizards.com. To use it just put in your cardname and if it appears in multiple sets there will be a listing of the various sets in a "versions" column on the results. Once you bring up a card the symbols for the various expansions are in the upper-right hand corner. Clicking on each set will show a different version of the card in the main window. Find the one which exactly matches the card and you're good to go with a high degree of confidence(there are a small handful of cards which aren't this simple, mainly special issue or promo cards, but you probably won't have any of those). Gatherer has some bugs, but it is generally the best resource for identifying cards. Second would probably be FindMagicCards.com which also lets you search by a card name and has the versions listed as well as pictures of each card. It is primarially a database of cards various shops have for sale but it has the various images of the cards from different sets online as well.

Enjoy,
Steven
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