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#1
Old 05-22-2005, 08:37 PM
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(Spoilers) Firefly 3: Bushwhacked

Welcome to episode three of the Firefly Film Festival.

As discussed here, we'll be reviewing and talking about one Firefly episode each week.

In this thread, please remember the following as a warning to yourself and courtesy to other posters:
* There will be unboxed spoilers about the current episode in this thread; you are forewarned.
* Please use spoiler boxes if you want to bring up points from later episodes.
* Please use spoiler warnings if you want to use info from the movie. Also be prepared for massive jealosy.
* Label what the spoilers are about so that readers can decide whether to open the box.
* We'll be talking about both the episode and the DVD commentary here.

Previous episodes:
1. Serenity
2. The Train Job

This week's episode: Bushwhacked. Who's starting the thread this week? Oh yeah, that would be me...
#2
Old 05-22-2005, 08:44 PM
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I don't think this is as strong as the previous episode, but I still liked it quite a bit. The crew is forced to be reactionary this time (instead of deciding in advance what they're doing), and we get to see some different angles.

More about the reavers, and what makes them scary, but not a lot of background on them. (Both here and the pilot, we have Alliance then reavers. Hmmm...) Nice highlighting of Mal's ambiguities - Inara thinks that he's being nice about the shepherd, but it might be to distract them while he worries about what the reavers have left. Two things, though: first, the reavers think and plan enough to leave traps? Second, how much does Mal know about the reavers, and how?

The interrogation scenes get to show some more character development. I would have liked to have heard more about Shepherd Book.

Space seems cramped in this series, and here's an episode where it shows. They aren't anywhere in particular, but they come across the derelict ship (which, even if its drive is out, should still have been drifting with the last direction and velocity it had, modified for any gravity wells it's gone near). Then the Alliance cruiser happens to see them both? Odd coincidence. Won't be the last time, either.

All in all, it did a bit to develop the setting and background, but didn't have a lot of plot in it.
#3
Old 05-22-2005, 08:58 PM
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I thought Bushwhacked was better than The Train Job, which I thought was an overall weak episode. The interrogation scenes and how they hid River made it for me.

Wash going on and on about Zoe's...virtues, the LOOK on Jayne's face, the panic in Mal's when he realises what's happening... Perfect.

And the joyous look on River's face when she and Simon are clinging to the outside of Serenity. It was nice.
#4
Old 05-22-2005, 09:13 PM
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Loved the interrogation scene. Oddly enough, the series finale of Enterprise uses a similar technique, where the same guest interviews various main characters in turn, with ambiguously phrased questions used to transition between characters. I thought "Bushwhacked" did a much better job, however, particularly the Zoe-to-Wash transition ("We're very private people"). My favorite moment in the episode is Jayne just glaring at the Alliance captain silently- a perfect character moment.

I also really liked Simon's fear of the emptiness of space, and the way it was used throughout the episode to illustrate both his character and the characters around him (Jayne's dislike for Simon, River's fascination with the very thing that frightens Simon, etc).

I thought it was interesting how Mal knew about the Reavers, particularly how they "convert" new members. One wonders just how he knows so much, particularly since he didn't become a Reaver himself...
#5
Old 05-22-2005, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
All in all, it did a bit to develop the setting and background, but didn't have a lot of plot in it.
Nail/head interface, IMO. Despite the 'ghost ship' plotline, the main purpose of this episode seems to be to further fill the audience in on the day-to-day lives of the characters. So, we get the initial scene of the improvised basketball game in Serenity's hold, plenty of detail about how one goes about conducting an illegal salvage operation, hinting at River's clairvoyance abilities (while making it plausible that the rest of the crew doesn't quite pick up on this), more picking on of the nerd (Simon) by the schoolyard bully (Jayne), and the interrogation scene provides a convenient opportunity for the characters to explain a bit more about themselves.

The rest all seems to be mood and atmosphere. This episode, directed by Tim Minear rather than Whedon and the first in the series to be set entirely in space, is extraordinarily beautifully lit and photographed. Considering the TV budget, the density of detail is amazing. The derelict homesteader's ship, perhaps a bit derivative of Alien's Nostromo, has its own distinctive design and creepy personality. The bizarre tendrils that, without explanation, attach themselves to Serenity when she docks with the derelict (we later learn it's a Reaver boobytrap). The color red (a warning of the bloody horrors to come?) figures again and again: River spotlit in her red frock, seemingly channeling the ghosts of the passngers, Simon carrying a ludicrously bright red doctor's kit; later, a red balloon is seen floating eerily in the background in the darkened derelict's corridor. The scene in which Simon and River hang on to the outside of Serenity, Simon terrified and miserable, River gazing in rapt wonder at the billions of stars, is really quite lovely. And the flashlit shot in which Mal and Zoe discover the eviscerated passengers hanging like slabs of beef in the hold is one of the more disturbing images I've seen in a TV show over the past few years.

Then the survivor turns up, and this part of the plot, unfortunately, goes to hash. I never found myself buying the central premise: that simply having witnessed the horrors carried out by the reavers would somehow push him into becoming one himself. It seems pretty clear that his main plot function is to provide a justification for the Alliance officer eventually letting Mal and his crew go. Even then, the officer suddenly developing a conscience, after demonstrating repeatedly that he doesn't appear to have one, doesn't ring all that true either.

Still, not particularly bad. I'll keep watching.
#6
Old 05-22-2005, 09:51 PM
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Don't get me wrong; in spite of the weak plot, I really loved the character moments. I'm with Tarrsk and Tengu about Jayne. Everyone else it talking about this or that... then you see Jayne just sitting there. Says more about Jayne then anything Jayne could have said. I'd put it among the best lines, only there ain't actually a line there.

I also thought the basketball was a nice touch - the crew gets bored, and isn't always doing this dangerous stuff. Every so often you see the crew doing just normal things, and it's a nice background to the rest of the show. This episode would (probably) not have gotten me hooked on the series, but it's a good solid show developer.

I'll make another mention of the humor in the show. Some shows, when they try to be humorous, have the writer making the jokes, and it's funny because of what the characters get into. This is the basis for sitcoms, sure, but too often when they try to put humor in a drama, that happens, too. In this show, it's not the writer being funny - well, obviously it is - but not with the externals, but by having the characters have a sense of humor. In Serenity, Mal tells Simon Kayley's dead. Here, Jayne plays the joke on Simon. (Yes, it's cruel in both those cases, but it shows about the characters.) Wash has a different sense of humor - he's silly with the dinosoars, then he says things like "Who's flying the ship? Oh yeah, me". Zoe is rarely humorous, but when she is, it's a deadpan, understated humor. So the writers can do humor within the show by having the characters produce humor that fits them, rather than forcing it on them. It seems more real, fits with the characters better, and - well, I just like it better.
#7
Old 05-22-2005, 10:40 PM
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Overall, I took the show to be mostly expository about the 'verse Fireflt is set in. What I'm not sure about is what to make of the Alliance personnel.

Was the story done this way to show that while brusque and officious, the Alliance officers can still be human beings on occasion once confronted with irrefutable fact? Or just plot-like Deus Ex that the Alliance Capt. decides to let them go afterwards? After all, he had them dead-to-rights on Illegal Salvage. And I get the impression that just normally bad people do very bad things and blame it on Reavers.

IMO, they could've left the whole Alliance bit out and turned the episode into a terror-crawl (ala Alien) through the insides of Serenity and/or the derelict as the rescued crewman goes totally nuts and tries to stalk and kill the crew. But then we'd have missed the great interrogation scenes. Jayne has probably heard "You have the right to remain silent.." plenty of times, and knows how to properly exrecise that right.

And I too am wondering how come Mal knows so much about Reavers. Maybe he picks up rumors here-and-there in different spaceports and puts the pieces together; but then again, anyone can do that. Then again, since it looks like they were being set up as the series boogeymen, someone has to fill us in on them one way or another.
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#8
Old 05-23-2005, 04:40 PM
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Yeah, what are we supposed to think of the Alliance? Ruthless lawgivers? Good guys seen from the wrong perspective? They seem wildly inconsistent.
#9
Old 05-23-2005, 05:19 PM
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Yeah, what are we supposed to think of the Alliance? Ruthless lawgivers? Good guys seen from the wrong perspective? They seem wildly inconsistent.
Bureaucrats. Tax Collectors. Time servers. Good Germans.

They certainly don't seem to take that much of an interest in the local affairs of the planets and moons they administer. In The Train Job, a platoon of their troops is explicitly told to continue on rather than help Paradiso's sheriff search for the stolen medicines.

The Alliance seems closest in metaphor to the European colonialist powers that exploited Africa and the Subcontinent in the 1700- and 1800's.
#10
Old 05-23-2005, 10:47 PM
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Well, like Mal said, "...unite all the planets under one central government so that they can all be ignored or interfered with equally."
#11
Old 05-23-2005, 11:01 PM
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The Alliance is a bloated bureaucracy interested only in protecting the corporate interests that shore it up. Itcan and will break its own laws and commit terrible atrocities to pursue those interests.

Much like any government you'd care to name, brought to its logical conclusion. Firefly presents a system where Anarchy is more or less the correct choice.

That said most of its officers are too banal to be truly evil, and some of them are good guys who just happen to be protecting the law for an unjust government.
#12
Old 05-23-2005, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExTank
And I too am wondering how come Mal knows so much about Reavers. Maybe he picks up rumors here-and-there in different spaceports and puts the pieces together; but then again, anyone can do that. Then again, since it looks like they were being set up as the series boogeymen, someone has to fill us in on them one way or another.
I'm dying to know more about Reavers, and you're right, what everyone knows about Reavers is rumors picked up here and there in various spaceports.

But Mal seems to have real experience with them. Maybe back during the war, the Rebels were forced out into the darker reaches of the galaxy and had real encounters with Reavers?

How does Reaver "society" work? How do you drive someone insane yet retain the ability to maintain and fly spaceships? Why don't they eat each other? How do they get along at all? What is it about the dark edges of the galaxy that drives people insane?

I'd love to see what happens when Reavers run into one of those large, government "mothership" whatcha-call-its.
#13
Old 05-24-2005, 12:04 AM
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Kaylee's still mighty durned cute.
#14
Old 05-24-2005, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExTank
And I too am wondering how come Mal knows so much about Reavers. Maybe he picks up rumors here-and-there in different spaceports and puts the pieces together; but then again, anyone can do that.
We really don't know what Reavers are or do, we only know what Mal believes he knows. He thinks that witnessing the horrors will turn a person into a Reaver, but neither he, nor we, know the mechanics involved.

Other than that, the whole ep is exposition, thinly disguised with a plot. More about life on Serenity, more about Alliance, more about Reavers, more about each character. I dunno if the writers started with the intention of making an ep with exposition or if they realized the plot was kinda thin and decided to use the extra time to do exposition, but the overall result is still enjoyable. It doesn't move along very quickly, but then, that should be the dynamics of all storytelling, sadly lacking in most tv shows.
#15
Old 05-24-2005, 04:00 AM
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I really liked the fact that it didn't turn into a bug-hunt episode. Seen enough of those.

This is the episode when I really grocked the how great, how effective the no-sound-in-space anti-effect can be, when Serenity docks with the derelict.

I remember laughing really hard the first time I realised Jayne had played a trick on the doctor. Guess it was just as funny the second time, too, because I laughed again!

People stung up like meat - *brrr*

Love Mal's way of talking down the panicked "survivor": 'no-one's going to hurt you - *WACK!* '. Again, shows how pragmatic he is.

I got the same vibe from the Alliance commander as from that Commodore/Captain guy in Pirates of the Caribean - a real rules stickler. So even though he let Mal go, he had to see to it that he didn't profit.

I really liked this one, probably because it's expositry.
#16
Old 05-24-2005, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by levdrakon
How does Reaver "society" work? How do you drive someone insane yet retain the ability to maintain and fly spaceships? Why don't they eat each other? How do they get along at all? What is it about the dark edges of the galaxy that drives people insane?
I don't think Reavers are a "society" so much as a syndrome. A strange self-replicating insanity in which the victims not only leave each other alone but are driven to drive others to their paticular madness. IOW, it's a viral meme.
#17
Old 05-24-2005, 08:18 AM
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I think it's a sign of the quality of this show that this is my least-favorite episode - and I still mostly like it, especially the interrogation scenes. Especially Jayne's. Overall I thought it was pretty contrived, especially the Alliance ship just randomly showing up.

This is definitely the first episode where I was able to fully appreciate Wash's lovely arms. Mmmm... Wash...

I would love to know what previous contact Mal had with the Reavers. It certainly seemed like he had some kind of experience with them.

Was the scene with the bodies on the derilect shown as fully when the show was broadcast on Fox? It seemed rather gruesome for network TV.
#18
Old 05-24-2005, 09:00 AM
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As for the random ships showing up: I think it was implied that the Alliance goes hunting for missing or known-destroyed ships in the pilot. It is ambiguous whether they simply ran across the other ship or not, though.
#19
Old 05-24-2005, 09:28 AM
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Similarly, I've heard the idea that most space travel goes along specific corridors, explaining why space is so crowded. I don't know that this makes any sense--planets and moons move in positions all the time, such that if your ship from Earth leaves for Mars fifteen minutes later than my ship, we'll end up being thousands of miles apart in our journey. But at least it's something of an explanation.

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#20
Old 05-24-2005, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness
Similarly, I've heard the idea that most space travel goes along specific corridors, explaining why space is so crowded. I don't know that this makes any sense--planets and moons move in positions all the time, such that if your ship from Earth leaves for Mars fifteen minutes later than my ship, we'll end up being thousands of miles apart in our journey. But at least it's something of an explanation.

Daniel
Well, I guess that makes sense. Especially in the light of Wash's comments (in Out of Gas?) about charting courses that will keep Serenity in emptier areas.
#21
Old 05-24-2005, 09:55 AM
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Hmm...it occurs to me that for most folks, traveling in corridors is vastly preferable to not doing so. If you're in a corridor and something goes wrong, help will be on the way fairly soon. If you're taking the most direct path from planet to planet (which varies depending on the moment of departure and arrival), when things go wrong you're stuck in the middle of nowhere.

And you could accomplish the corridor-travelling, I'd think, by having several "meetup" points. Travel to the meetup point, go along the corridor till you reach a meetup point close to your destination, and then go from the last meetup point to your destination. This would greatly increase the safety of interplanetary travel for most folks, I'd think.

God, I'm turning into a Trekkie.

Daniel
#22
Old 05-24-2005, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness
Similarly, I've heard the idea that most space travel goes along specific corridors, explaining why space is so crowded. I don't know that this makes any sense--planets and moons move in positions all the time, such that if your ship from Earth leaves for Mars fifteen minutes later than my ship, we'll end up being thousands of miles apart in our journey. But at least it's something of an explanation.

Daniel
And along that vein, we're not sure whether or not thousands, tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of miles are really "all that far apart" in the techno-'verse. A powerful enough radar could conceivably see several light-minutes around a ship in space.
#23
Old 05-24-2005, 12:52 PM
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Like Orual, I like this episode the least of them all. Too much happens merely because It's In The Script, especially the survivor "coping" by becoming a Reaver and Mal predicting it.

Still, there's lots to love. "Her legs, and where her legs meet her back. Actually, that whole area."

As for the Reavers, I was going to say that being "insane" doesn't necessarily rob you of intelligence, planning, or even a social network. They could just divide the world into "us" and "them," and any "them" is the equivalent of cattle. People do it often enough in the real world. However, this doesn't explain why they would blithely run a ship with an unshielded reactor - that does seem to imply a much less organized type of insanity. So, I dunno.
#24
Old 05-24-2005, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness
Similarly, I've heard the idea that most space travel goes along specific corridors, explaining why space is so crowded.
I still have a problem with this. Suppose the derelict ship was going along the corridor, and Serenity follows later. Once the derelict ship is attacked, it should either keep going along the corridor under it's own inertia; or miss a course change, and go out of the corridor; or be sent off course by an attack, also making it leave the corridor. Any of those things would mean Serenity would not find it.

It seems like it would take a great deal of precise course correction to place the ship stationary relative to the corridor, but not drift. (And as you go on to say, the corridor shouldn't be consistent, anyway.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExTank
A powerful enough radar could conceivably see several light-minutes around a ship in space.
I'll buy this is how the Alliance ship (looking for the derelict) found them. But it's not how Serenity found them - they ran over someone in the proverbial interstellar crosswalk, not found them on their radar where they'd run off the galactic bypass into a gravity ditch.

I guess the best I can come up with is that the Reavers carefully put the ship where someone was likely to come across it, to trap them. Which first, is a reach not supported by what we see on screen (though consistent with it), and second, implies a lot more thought from the Reavers than seems consistent.
#25
Old 05-24-2005, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by NE Texan
I still have a problem with this. Suppose the derelict ship was going along the corridor, and Serenity follows later. Once the derelict ship is attacked, it should either keep going along the corridor under it's own inertia; or miss a course change, and go out of the corridor; or be sent off course by an attack, also making it leave the corridor. Any of those things would mean Serenity would not find it.
Two things: first, the "corridor" would likely be quite large. We're still not sure what the scale of the Firefly 'verse is, but it could be as large as a lightyear across. If the Reavers didn't just kill the engines but also countered the ship's inertia, it might take years for the ship to drift out of the corridor, and hence out of sensor range for passing ships.

Secondly, the Reavers specifically left the ship there as a trap. A trap's no good if no one ever comes by to find it, so they likely set the ship to drift down the corridor, not across it.

I'll second what other have said about Reavers, i.e. we don't actually know anything about them for certain, except that they like to kill people in horrible ways and that they have no concern for personal safety (piloting a ship with an unshielded core, or whatnot, from the pilot.) Where they came from, how they create other Reavers, how their society functions, how they function as individuals, why they do what they do... all we know about any of that is what other characters in the show have said, and it is not at all clear that they actually "know" anything, and aren't just repeating folklore and urban legends. Although Mal's info does seem at least more reliable than the Alliance's info.

I like to think that the Reavers came into exsistence because someone exploring out on the edge of explored space found... something. Something very, very old, and not at all human. Something that they can use to make others into more things like themselves. Yeah, I know, one of the charms of Firefly is that there are no aliens. Personally, I would allow a one-time exception for an alien species that has been extinct for at least one million years. Preferably longer. Ancient, dead alien civilizations are one of my favorite sf memes, when done properly, and I'd trust Joss to do it up right.
#26
Old 05-24-2005, 02:51 PM
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I don't know if all of this comes from the first three episode, so here's my take on why Mal knows about Reavers:
SPOILER:
I think Mal is a high-functioning Reaver. If you listen to all the things he says about them, about how looking into the emptiness of space has changed them, about how that ship is where the survivor is going to be living for the rest of his life, and compare those things to everything Mal says about the battle of Serenity Valley ("once you've been to Serenity, you never leave it"), they're pretty much the same. Mal looked into those ships landing at the end of the battle and lost everything he had. He is only able to function because he has surrounded himself with people who have all the parts he is missing, and he is only able to express those things when he's around people--happiness, compassion, curiosity. All the times that Mal is left on his own to pilot the ship or look for something or go somewhere, his face shuts down and he stops emoting anything at all until he's around people again, and then, as soon as he has somebody to relate to, he lights up like a christmas tree.
#27
Old 05-24-2005, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levdrakon
How does Reaver "society" work? How do you drive someone insane yet retain the ability to maintain and fly spaceships? Why don't they eat each other? How do they get along at all? What is it about the dark edges of the galaxy that drives people insane?

I'd love to see what happens when Reavers run into one of those large, government "mothership" whatcha-call-its.
Keep in mind that I haven't seen the movie so if I get a lucky guess it's not a spoiler.

I think the Reaver "society" isn't one. They're kind of a like a self-perpetuating virus. That's how they 'reproduce'. Besides that, just because Reavers are a bunch of bad ass psychotic mass-murderers doesn't mean that they're animals. Why can't they fly a ship?

Even if they are seen (when face-to-face), if we assume that they're totally mad killers that doesn't mean they're ALWAYS like that. Maybe they are somewhat normal up until it's feeding time and then they go into a frenzy.

As for the Reavers running into an Alliance ship, well, that's like wondering what would happen with a bunch of Cannibal Headhunters in the Pacific. Sure, if they jump a cargo freighter or a pleasure yacht they'll cause a lot of misery. Jumping a battleship that can see them coming, however, is a totally different story.

(poof) Reavers vaporized long before they make it into boarding range.

-Joe
#28
Old 05-24-2005, 09:08 PM
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This is also one of my least-favorite episodes. Frankly, the Reavers don't work for me. I don't buy that men just go mad when they see horrible things done. We have plenty, and I mean plenty of examples of men who have seen insanely horrible things happen, and they didn't turn into Reavers. Plus, how many can there be? If it's insanity, would two Reavers give birth to a little Reavlet? Or would it be a normal little kid wondering why Mommy and Daddy have safety pins in their faces and split tongues?

And if they don't procreate, how the hell do they maintain their population? Can recruitment be THAT good? And bear in mind that they fly around 'without core containment', which is 'suicide'. So apparently they don't live too long.

I love Firefly, but I think it would have been a better show without the Reavers. Unless, of course, there's more too them than we know, and the backstory was cut short by the evil that is FOX.
#29
Old 05-24-2005, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Miller
I like to think that the Reavers came into exsistence because someone exploring out on the edge of explored space found... something. Something very, very old, and not at all human.
So, you think the Reavers met the Elder Gods?
#30
Old 05-24-2005, 09:46 PM
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The Reavers fill the same spot in Firefly that Indians do in many older westerns: strange, alien boogeymen that seem uncomprehensible but demonstrate the savagery and evil that men are capable of without the influence of civilization. They're the polar opposite of the Alliance, but even more horrifying. Now, they may not make much sense as a real culture, but I still dig them for the artistic point they make. Plus, I like a good boogeyman. I think Reavers play a big part in Serenity (the film). Ask me about them again friday.

Of course, Reavers lack the cultural baggage of Indians. Since they aren't a proud and culturally rich people being genocided by land-grabbing Europeans, we can let them be monsters and madmen guilt-free. The same's true for the Independents, which are Confederates without all the nasty slavery and racism. Firefly lets liberals play at being gun-toting anti-government outlaws guilt-free.
#31
Old 05-26-2005, 03:03 PM
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I think that the reavers also play a part in the story as a comparison. Several times Mal and company are "bad guys" compared to the laws (such as they are). By having the reavers, or worse guys such as Niska, it also leaves space for Mal and company to be morally better than others. This gives the writers a lot of dramatic room for character movement by having them be morally ambiguous.

If there were no unambiguously bad guys, I think Mal and company would come off looking worse, somehow.
#32
Old 05-27-2005, 04:30 PM
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Duellin' and dancin' - hope everyone has a chance for a good Shindig this weekend!
#33
Old 05-27-2005, 08:14 PM
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Maybe the Reavers are like Viking berserkers. Every now and then they get together to blow some shizzle up, but for long stretches of time they're just farmers, fishermen, and, uh, nuclear physicists.
#34
Old 05-28-2005, 01:05 AM
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Okay, what I ADORE about this series is how it takes actors you've never heard of (ie: Inara and Kaylee) or, unfortunately, HAVE heard of (Mal, jayne, and Book) and somehow they manage to be terrific actors. I was never a big fan of "Buffy" and never watched "Angel" so I don't know if it is Whedon and Minear's scripts or what. All I can saw is that "Buffy"'s scripts never seemed to push people this far beyond their personal envelopes, but it might be that their envelopes were that much smaller.

I've seen interviews, though, where Joss talks of this show as if it were the love of his life. I hope it lives longer than I expect it to in its timeslot.
#35
Old 05-28-2005, 03:49 AM
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Well, I was going to watch it tonight, but FOX had a baseball game on instead. (-:
#36
Old 05-30-2005, 07:15 PM
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Episode 4.
#37
Old 06-03-2005, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller
I'll second what other have said about Reavers, i.e. we don't actually know anything about them for certain, except that they like to kill people in horrible ways and that they have no concern for personal safety (piloting a ship with an unshielded core, or whatnot, from the pilot.) Where they came from, how they create other Reavers, how their society functions, how they function as individuals, why they do what they do... all we know about any of that is what other characters in the show have said, and it is not at all clear that they actually "know" anything, and aren't just repeating folklore and urban legends. Although Mal's info does seem at least more reliable than the Alliance's info.
I'm just watching it now. Mal was also the only one who knew that the Reavers would likely booby-trap the ship the way they did, so he must have some real information about them.

A minor nit-pick I just noticed. I'm at the part where the head Alliance guy is interviewing the crew. The last thing he says is to Book is, "if they're hiding anywhere on that ship, we'll find them." Then they cut to the ship being searched. They show the Alliance soldiers "searching" the ship. There are about eight guys around the dining room table. They're turning over the chairs and looking under them. Taking plates off the table and looking under them. Grabbing the chairs again and looking under them again. Grabbing the plates again and re-checking under them.

Uh, guys, you're looking for two people, right?
#38
Old 06-03-2005, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levdrakon
Taking plates off the table and looking under them. Grabbing the chairs again and looking under them again. Grabbing the plates again and re-checking under them.

Uh, guys, you're looking for two people, right?
"All right men - SOMEWHERE in this galley should be a note they left, saying where they went. FIND IT!"
#39
Old 06-03-2005, 10:55 AM
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And had the Alliance Crew taken Ship Searching 101, they should have found some evidence Serenity had nine people aboard not seven. Unless not only did Siman and River go outside the ship but all theire possesions and their cabin was cleaned to show no evidence of their presence.
#40
Old 06-03-2005, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
A minor nit-pick I just noticed. I'm at the part where the head Alliance guy is interviewing the crew. The last thing he says is to Book is, "if they're hiding anywhere on that ship, we'll find them." Then they cut to the ship being searched. They show the Alliance soldiers "searching" the ship. There are about eight guys around the dining room table. They're turning over the chairs and looking under them. Taking plates off the table and looking under them. Grabbing the chairs again and looking under them again. Grabbing the plates again and re-checking under them.

Uh, guys, you're looking for two people, right?
There's a long police tradition (at least in fiction) of harassing people under suspicion by making as much of a mess of their property as possible during a search. The troops were probably ordered to leave no stone unturned (nudge nudge wink wink) and thus did so.
#41
Old 06-03-2005, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NE Texan
"All right men - SOMEWHERE in this galley should be a note they left, saying where they went. FIND IT!"

"I found this spoon, sir."

Sorry. I was channelling "The Life of Brian" rather than "Firefly". I won't happen again. Maybe.
#42
Old 06-03-2005, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levdrakon
I'm just watching it now. Mal was also the only one who knew that the Reavers would likely booby-trap the ship the way they did, so he must have some real information about them.
Real, yes. But that's different from first hand. Could be that he knows someone who knows someone who found a ship the Reavers had hit, and got his info from them.
#43
Old 06-03-2005, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller
Real, yes. But that's different from first hand. Could be that he knows someone who knows someone who found a ship the Reavers had hit, and got his info from them.
I agree with that. I get the impression from Mal that no one has a first hand, face to face encounter with Reavers and lives to tell the story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Kabong
There's a long police tradition (at least in fiction) of harassing people under suspicion by making as much of a mess of their property as possible during a search. The troops were probably ordered to leave no stone unturned (nudge nudge wink wink) and thus did so.
I understand that. They were basically ransacking the place, but still. Looking under a placemat, then looking under the placemat again? It just looked silly to me, and something I'd give Joss Whedon some shit about, if he were a personal friend of mine. Like NE Texan said, "what are you looking for, a note with a little diagram pointing to the window outside the galley?"

audit1, that's a good point. They really should have noticed there appeared to be evidence of two more people living there than they could account for.
#44
Old 06-03-2005, 04:54 PM
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I don't know about that. The commander seemed to assume the refugees were there, and his men were sent to look for them. Whether or not Simon and River's belongings were there is irrelevant. If they can be found, then it wouldn't matter if there had been no other signs of them. On the other hand, if they weren't on the ship, it doesn't matter if there were signs of two others; could have been killed recently, dropped at the last stop, or left with the hypothetical ship Serenity just might have docked with prior to the Alliance ship coming. The Alliance commander was going to sell the ship and put the crew in custody anyway.

I think the soldiers were looking for stuff to steal (cash?) while they were there. 'cuz the Alliance probably doesn't pay too shiny.
#45
Old 07-05-2005, 09:05 PM
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In addition to "no noise in space" Serenity obeyed physics by matching rotation with the delerect. You can see the stars rotating in comparison.

I also noticed that Serenity shuts down her engines when she breaks orbit and obeys Mr. Newton's Laws.
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