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#1
Old 06-03-2005, 11:41 PM
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How many songs will an iPod hold, using Apple Lossless Encoding?

Apple says their 20gb iPod will hold '5,000 songs'. I assume this is at the lowest quality level. How many songs will it hold using Apple Lossless encoding? (Assume an average run-time per song of 3:30, if you like.)
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#2
Old 06-04-2005, 01:13 AM
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No, that's not at the lowest quality. The 5,000 songs number is based on using 128Kbps AAC format the same format and quality level the iTunes music store uses for the music it sells.

Apple Lossless encoder "offers sound quality indistinguishable from the original CDs at about half the file size of the original."
#3
Old 06-04-2005, 01:14 AM
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If I recall correctly a lossless song is about 30-40 megabytes. Lets say 35 megs.

so 20 x 10^9 / 35 x 10^6 = 571.429 songs.

Keep in mind that this will force the ipod to spin up twice per song(32 meg memory) drastically cutting battery life.
#4
Old 06-04-2005, 01:29 AM
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I have a couple of CDs ripped as Apple Lossless and it works out to an average of 6-7MB per minute
#5
Old 06-04-2005, 08:30 AM
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I have 137 songs downloaded from the itunes site for a total of 685.1MB of space. That works out to 2.81Mb/song. My mini (5GB) has a mixure of ACC and MP3's and a couple of audio books (like "When Will Jesus Bring the Porkchops?" ) for a total of 1631 entries of 4.02GB.

You can easily get 5000 ACC formatted tunes onto a 20GB ipod but I have no idea when you would have time to listen to all that music.
#6
Old 06-04-2005, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Si Amigo
I have 137 songs downloaded from the itunes site for a total of 685.1MB of space. That works out to 2.81Mb/song. My mini (5GB) has a mixure of ACC and MP3's and a couple of audio books (like "When Will Jesus Bring the Porkchops?" ) for a total of 1631 entries of 4.02GB.
The songs from iTunes music store are encoded at 128bps AAC (lossy). Apple Lostless encoding is much higher bps
#7
Old 06-04-2005, 10:12 AM
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iTunes music is encoded at 128Kbps, not 128bps.
#8
Old 06-04-2005, 10:21 AM
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I guess the next question should be how much the quality differs between AAC and Lossless.
#9
Old 06-04-2005, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
I guess the next question should be how much the quality differs between AAC and Lossless.
Depends mostly on how high you set the bitrate.

You can set the bitrate between 16kbps and 320kbps when importing AAC. At 320kbps you probably won't be able to tell the difference between that and Lossless.

I say "probably" because this depends on the quality of your equipment and how picky (for want of a better word) you are over the quality. It's a very subjective thing.

The best thing to do is to import some CDs at a selection of bitrates (start at, say 128kbps, then move up to 320kbps with a few intervals in between) and also import some as Lossless.

Listen and see at which bitrate you can tell the difference between the AAC file and the Lossless. If you can't tell the difference between a Lossless track and an AAC track encoded at 320kbps (or lower), then there's obviously no point encoding all your music in Lossless.

For comparison a 5-minute song encoded at 320kbps is just under 12 megabytes, which is significantly smaller than the 40-50 megabytes the same song in Apple Lossless would take up.
#10
Old 06-04-2005, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walloon
iTunes music is encoded at 128Kbps, not 128bps.
Oops! Thanks for the correction

*preview is my friend*
#11
Old 06-04-2005, 09:07 PM
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If you want to use 3:30 as the average song length, then about 1,300 songs.

(CD audio takes up about 8.75 MB per min. A 3.5 min song would be 30.625 MB. Apple Lossless roughly halves the filesize, leaving us with 15.3125 MB per song. 20 GB divided by that is about 1,306.)
#12
Old 06-05-2005, 12:34 AM
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No iPod yet, but I did rip some CDs onto iTunes. It's hard to tell the quality with the little speakers on my PowerBook; but from what I can hear, it sounds good. I put 15 or 16 CDs into iTunes, and it took less than 700mb.

Reply: I haven't counted my CDs recently, but I think I have about 200 or so. It sounds as if an iPod might hold almost half of them at Lossless size; but I've discovered that it's a bit of a pain typing in all of those titles, and it takes a few minutes per CD to transfer them at the lower rate.
#13
Old 06-05-2005, 12:41 AM
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Dude,

Consider ripping them at the highest quality and then making playlist of the songs that you really want on your portable device. Keep the full versions on your harddisk and download new playlist with the whole CD as needed.

I've got tons of crap on mine that I never listen to. Wish I had ripped them at the higher quality to begin with. Now I got to go back and redo my 200 CD's over again.
#14
Old 06-05-2005, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Si Amigo
Consider ripping them at the highest quality and then making playlist of the songs that you really want on your portable device. Keep the full versions on your harddisk and download new playlist with the whole CD as needed.
Unfortunately, iTunes didn't come with a manual. I tried using the Help button, but it wasn't very helpful. So I don't know how to change the encoding. I'm just putting the CDs in the slot, making a 'playlist' (i.e., a file with the name of the band), typing the names of the songs, and moving them into the playlist. I have no idea which encoding setting it's using.
#15
Old 06-05-2005, 12:54 AM
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I beleive that you have to go to the "Advanced" setting to change the bit rate.
#16
Old 06-05-2005, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny L.A.
No iPod yet, but I did rip some CDs onto iTunes. It's hard to tell the quality with the little speakers on my PowerBook; but from what I can hear, it sounds good. I put 15 or 16 CDs into iTunes, and it took less than 700mb.

Reply: I haven't counted my CDs recently, but I think I have about 200 or so. It sounds as if an iPod might hold almost half of them at Lossless size; but I've discovered that it's a bit of a pain typing in all of those titles, and it takes a few minutes per CD to transfer them at the lower rate.
Weird, you have to type in the titles? Doesn't iTunes support CDDB?
#17
Old 06-05-2005, 01:01 AM
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Yes it does. Like LA implied, the iTunes help is crap. I only found it out after playing with it. After my 10th CD I was amazed that it filled in the songs for me. And Apple claims to be so user friendly . . .

Checkout http://ipodlounge.com/ lot's of good info there.
#18
Old 06-05-2005, 01:04 AM
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iTunes 4: How to convert a song to a different file format.
#19
Old 06-05-2005, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walloon
From the Apple site: (Purchased songs are encoded using a protected AAC format that prevents them from being converted.).

That kind of ticks me off. You can do it, but you have to go outside of Apple to do so.

I wish satillite radio (truely) worked in doors.
#20
Old 06-05-2005, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny L.A.
I don't know how to change the encoding.
Well, you want to specify what bitrate preferences to use when importing music, right? So look at Preferences >> Importing.

Seems fairly obvious to me.
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#21
Old 06-05-2005, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reply
Weird, you have to type in the titles? Doesn't iTunes support CDDB?
It seems to me that personal computing really took off around 1990/1991, when people started getting the Internet. Many of my CDs are before that time. I expected the soundtracks for Trainspotting or Run Lola Run, or a couple of the newer CDs, to have been encoded so that their information could be read; but they all come up with 'Track 01', 'Track 02', etc. and when I click 'Get Info' I still have to enter everything manually.
#22
Old 06-05-2005, 10:10 AM
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I haven't ripped any older CD's in about two years or so but I seem to recall that if you filled in the title of the CD or group that there was a search function that would look for the track names in the iTunes database and fill them in for you.
#23
Old 06-05-2005, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Si Amigo
I haven't ripped any older CD's in about two years or so but I seem to recall that if you filled in the title of the CD or group that there was a search function that would look for the track names in the iTunes database and fill them in for you.
Aha! Maybe I should connect to the Internet next session.
#24
Old 06-05-2005, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny L.A.
It seems to me that personal computing really took off around 1990/1991, when people started getting the Internet. Many of my CDs are before that time. I expected the soundtracks for Trainspotting or Run Lola Run, or a couple of the newer CDs, to have been encoded so that their information could be read; but they all come up with 'Track 01', 'Track 02', etc. and when I click 'Get Info' I still have to enter everything manually.
You must be doing something wrong or listening to REALLY obscure music. I have yet to find a CD that was not on one of the internet CD data bases. Most of my music was recorded before 1990.
#25
Old 06-05-2005, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazpacho
You must be doing something wrong or listening to REALLY obscure music. I have yet to find a CD that was not on one of the internet CD data bases. Most of my music was recorded before 1990.
Bad Religion, Suicidal Tendencies, Social Distortion, Frank Sinatra, soundracks for Tank Girl, Trainspotting and Run Lola Run, Wall Of Voodoo, Kate Bush, Karl Zero, Specials, The Stranglers, and The Kinks so far.

I'll try connecting to the Intenet when I start again. Next up: Throbbing Gristle.
#26
Old 06-05-2005, 11:13 AM
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Okay, I found Get CD Track Names under the Advanced tab. Too late for Throbbing Gristle, but it worked for Oingo Boingo.
#27
Old 06-07-2005, 02:02 PM
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The data bases are on the internet. I have Social Distortion's first couple of discs and they are on the data bases I use. I don't use Itunes but it definitely has this feature or I am sure I would have heard about it in one of the apple suxxors vs window$ suxxors debates.
#28
Old 06-07-2005, 05:40 PM
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Both iTunes and WMP song/album lookup sucks and don't find all of my CDs. Their settings are also cryptic and non-intuitive. I ended up buying the retail version of WinAmp and have had a MUCH more pleasant experience ripping since then.
#29
Old 06-07-2005, 05:51 PM
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I listen to some goddawful music, and It's never ceased to amaze me that let alone some other soul out there actually likes the same crap I do, but they took the time to meticulously type all the song info into CDDB.

Johnny LA, give the iTunes "Get CD Track Names" another chance.

Oh yeah, congrats on your new Powerbook.
#30
Old 06-07-2005, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan Doubt
Johnny LA, give the iTunes "Get CD Track Names" another chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny L.A.
Okay, I found Get CD Track Names under the Advanced tab. Too late for Throbbing Gristle, but it worked for Oingo Boingo.
#31
Old 06-07-2005, 10:24 PM
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No, seriously, give it another chance. Highlight all the tracks labeled "track 01...etc." and try again. Even if the CD is no longer in the CD drive, it'll find the CD info (i.e., Throbbing Gristle should come up after the fact, as well as all your tracks, none of that stuff is so obscure as to not be in CDDB).
#32
Old 06-07-2005, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan Doubt
No, seriously, give it another chance.
No, seriously. That's what I did from Oingo Boingo onward, to good results. It even had Mermaid Lounge.
#33
Old 06-07-2005, 11:10 PM
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Yet another, satisfied iTunes customer. I filed my rebate card today, count me among the satisfied.
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