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#1
Old 01-29-2007, 03:45 AM
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Origin of "I find your ideas intriguing etc"

Where does "I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter" originate from?
#2
Old 01-29-2007, 03:48 AM
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It's from an episode of The Simpson, but I can't remember which one. Homer says it in response to something Bart says.
#3
Old 01-29-2007, 06:16 AM
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It was on Usenet in Jan 1998 attributed to Homer.
#4
Old 01-29-2007, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer1
It's from an episode of The Simpson, but I can't remember which one. Homer says it in response to something Bart says.
The episode was 'mountain of madness', season 8, first aired Feb 2 1997. (Gee, almost exactly ten years ago!!) The one where Homer and Mister Burns end up buried under the avalanche and both go kinduv crazy

#5
Old 01-29-2007, 06:29 AM
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Can someone please explain to me what the remark means? I get a bit lost between the multiple layers of irony.

Does it mean: "You, sir are crazy. Go away."
or: "I like your kind of crazy" .
#6
Old 01-29-2007, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maastricht
Can someone please explain to me what the remark means? I get a bit lost between the multiple layers of irony.

Does it mean: "You, sir are crazy. Go away."
or: "I like your kind of crazy" .
I'm not quite sure what the usual references mean, or indeed if there's a pattern.

The original, if I recall correctly, was quite unironic. More like, "You know, no-one's ever said something like that to me before, but DAMMIT if that doesn't make a lot of sense. You are clearly an individual posessing not only insight, but courage to say things that the Powers That Be do not want us to know about. Is there anything more you can tell me?"

Or at least that's what I thought.
#7
Old 01-29-2007, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisk
I'm not quite sure what the usual references mean, or indeed if there's a pattern.

The original, if I recall correctly, was quite unironic. More like, "You know, no-one's ever said something like that to me before, but DAMMIT if that doesn't make a lot of sense. You are clearly an individual posessing not only insight, but courage to say things that the Powers That Be do not want us to know about. Is there anything more you can tell me?"

Or at least that's what I thought.
Before the internet took off, conspiracy theorists would disseminate their lunacy via badly photocopied newsletters to which one would subscribe.

The Mel Gibson Conspiracy film gives a good idea.

These days making a website has taken all the fun out of it.
#8
Old 01-29-2007, 07:26 AM
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Ah ha! I tracked down the quote, from Wikipedia:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Simpsons
Bart: Sharing is a bunch of bull, too. And helping others. And what's all this crap I've been hearing about tolerance?
Homer: Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
So, irony.
#9
Old 01-29-2007, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyla
Ah ha! I tracked down the quote, from Wikipedia:



So, irony.
I still disagree. Bart, possibly, was being ironic, just saying things that he knew would annoy his mother. But Homer was almost charmingly sincere in his reply... as if he really thought Bart would be putting out a newsletter.

At least, that's my two cents worth and I'm sticking to it.
#10
Old 01-29-2007, 01:03 PM
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I agree. I use it as a statement of support and interest in whatever a previous poster has said, usually about boobs.
#11
Old 01-29-2007, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silenus
I agree. I use it as a statement of support and interest in whatever a previous poster has said, usually about boobs.
Do you have a newsletter to which I may subscribe?
#12
Old 01-29-2007, 02:14 PM
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the answer

Homer: So, Burns is gonna make us all go on a stupid corporate retreat up in the mountains to learn about teamwork. Which means we'll have to cancel our plans to hang around here.
Bart: Teamwork is overrated.
Homer: Huh?
Bart: Think about it. I mean, what team was Babe Ruth on? Who knows.
Lisa and Marge: Yankees.
Bart: Sharing is a bunch of bull, too. And helping others. And what's all this crap I've been hearing about tolerance?
Homer: Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
#13
Old 01-29-2007, 02:26 PM
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I think if Lisa had said it it would be irony. Homer lacks the wit for irony.
#14
Old 01-29-2007, 03:30 PM
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But he produces it unwittingly from time to time all the same. I vote with the irony people.
#15
Old 01-29-2007, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberal
But he produces it unwittingly from time to time all the same. I vote with the irony people.
But it's not irony if you don't know you're doing it. Look at Homer's attitude and facial expressions; he's being sincere, even if he is a doofus.

Perhaps the broader question is why would Homer think that agreeing with someone would be basis for subscription to a newsletter? Never mind the fact that Bart doesn't publish newsletters; there's some cultural reference from 1997 that we've forgotten or that we're missing. For example, Rush Limbaugh was bigger then; did he have a newsletter then that people would subscribe to just because they were intrigued with his ideas? Did disillusioned young adults run around city streets spouting off ideas and encouraging people to subscribe to their newsletters? It's a funny line now as it was then, but what frame of reference makes it funny?

Last edited by Balthisar; 01-29-2007 at 04:30 PM. Reason: your<>you're
#16
Old 01-29-2007, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberal
But he produces it unwittingly from time to time all the same. I vote with the irony people.
I agree, because it has nothing to do with Homer. It's irony not because Homer knows what he's saying, but because the writers and the viewers agree he's an idiot and the words coming out of his mouth mean the opposite of their literal meaning.

"Irony" is, and will always be, first and foremost a literary device employed by writers. Homer may have not been being sarcastic, but his words were definitely ironic.
#17
Old 01-29-2007, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balthisar
Did disillusioned young adults run around city streets spouting off ideas and encouraging people to subscribe to their newsletters? It's a funny line now as it was then, but what frame of reference makes it funny?
Kooks used to publish newsletters all the time, and by publish, I mean photocopy or mimeograph some crap they typed out on an IBM Selectric. They would rant and rave on street corners and try to pass them out to anyone walking by. I seem to recall that this was a part of the plot in the movie "Conspiracy Theory" which I think came out around the same time.

I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't thousands of kooks out there right now that send out regular newsletters by e-mail to anyone wishing to subscribe.

Now that I think about it, one of my coworkers basically does this right now. It's mainly about Jesus and also contains his thoughts on politics. It isn't very good
#18
Old 01-29-2007, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyNot
I agree, because it has nothing to do with Homer. It's irony not because Homer knows what he's saying, but because the writers and the viewers agree he's an idiot and the words coming out of his mouth mean the opposite of their literal meaning.

"Irony" is, and will always be, first and foremost a literary device employed by writers. Homer may have not been being sarcastic, but his words were definitely ironic.
Yep. And when someone else says the same thing now, it's definitely ironic because, of course, no one would intentionally imitate Homer Simpson without tongue planted firmly in cheek.
#19
Old 01-29-2007, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mace
Yep. And when someone else says the same thing now, it's definitely ironic because, of course, no one would intentionally imitate Homer Simpson without tongue planted firmly in cheek.
One could even go so far as to say that people using it "straight" (that is, to indicate agreement and an interest in further information about, say, boobies) are in fact using it ironically - because the original meaning is to mockingly indicate disagreement. So ironic use of an ironic phrase is....what....meta ironic? It can, therefore, never be used unironically. Either you repeat it in its original ironic state, or you ironically use an already ironic phrase. Isn't it ironic?

(I feel like I'm in a prealgebra class and have to go count my negative signs to make sure the answer's on the correct side of the number line!)
#20
Old 01-29-2007, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-logic
The Mel Gibson Conspiracy film gives a good idea.

What does The Passion of the Christ have to do with this?

:rimshot:
#21
Old 01-29-2007, 05:59 PM
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Hmm, the problem I have with the irony view is that Homer is the kind of character who would actually approve of Bart's rant against teamwork and tolerance. Plus it's always those two against Marge and Lisa's more sensible views. I think they were making fun by implying Homer is one of those easily led types who would subscribe to things like conspiracy or ranting newsletters. Remember how he got led away on the bandwagon with the monorail and the proposition to kick out immigrants?

Of course, it could have been some deeper thing that none of us are getting, or just something that sounded funny and the authors figure we can interpret how we like.

Yikes, how did it ever come to this - Debating what they meant in The Simpsons.
#22
Old 01-29-2007, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyNot
I agree, because it has nothing to do with Homer. It's irony not because Homer knows what he's saying, but because the writers and the viewers agree he's an idiot and the words coming out of his mouth mean the opposite of their literal meaning.
Well, yes, in the scope of the audience writers it's obvious that it's irony. I thought we were questioning Homer's intent here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer1
Yikes, how did it ever come to this - Debating what they meant in The Simpsons.
Gosh, I'm doing it too.
#23
Old 01-30-2007, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyNot
I agree, because it has nothing to do with Homer. It's irony not because Homer knows what he's saying, but because the writers and the viewers agree he's an idiot and the words coming out of his mouth mean the opposite of their literal meaning.
Joining in the debate here... that statement has EVERYTHING to do with Homer. He's quite capable of coming out with unintentional irony, but I can't see how this sentence is an example of that... partly because it's all about Homer's own reactions to what Bart said. It's humorously unexpected, but the only way it would be ironic is if Homer actually didn't like what Bart was saying, but thought that he did.

Not *everything* coming out of Homer's mouth means the opposite of what it seems to.

#24
Old 01-30-2007, 08:04 AM
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Sometimes the characters can say things that are out of character, such as when Bart replied to Lisa "I'm familiar with the works of Pablo Neruda." However, in this case I think it was just a chance for the audience to mock Homer's stupidity.

He wasn't being sarcastic, and wasn't being ironic, unless you mean the "alanic" kind of ironic.
#25
Old 01-30-2007, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisk
Joining in the debate here... that statement has EVERYTHING to do with Homer. He's quite capable of coming out with unintentional irony, but I can't see how this sentence is an example of that... partly because it's all about Homer's own reactions to what Bart said. It's humorously unexpected, but the only way it would be ironic is if Homer actually didn't like what Bart was saying, but thought that he did.

Not *everything* coming out of Homer's mouth means the opposite of what it seems to.

It has nothing to do with Homer in that Homer isn't a real person. Everything he says to us is a message from the writers. When the writer's wrote: "Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter." They meant: "Wow, you're a bleeping idiot." and we the audience know that, especially as it's reinforced by the characters of Lisa and Marge.

A writer writing a sentence that has a literal meaning opposite it's intended meaning is irony. Simple textbook definition.
#26
Old 01-30-2007, 09:35 AM
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May I say that that Simpsons episode is the one I cite as when the show Jumped the Shark- Burns and Homer friends? What next, Marge & Homer divorce?
#27
Old 01-30-2007, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyNot
It has nothing to do with Homer in that Homer isn't a real person. Everything he says to us is a message from the writers. When the writer's wrote: "Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter." They meant: "Wow, you're a bleeping idiot." and we the audience know that, especially as it's reinforced by the characters of Lisa and Marge.

A writer writing a sentence that has a literal meaning opposite it's intended meaning is irony. Simple textbook definition.
If you're suggesting that the writers meant that the phrase "you're ideas are intriguing . . . " equals "wow, you're a bleeping idiot", I don't see where that conclusion comes from, and I know the episode and the characters welll. If this is the case, then I think you're wrong as context indicates otherwise. If you're suggesting that the greater message of the scene may be just that Homer is an idiot, then though I disagree with you, I see where you are getting that from -- to me, the reply seems to be less exemplary of idiocy and more self centered misanthropy. Nonetheless, the comment is certainly not ironic from Homer's perspective (A character can be written as intentionally ironic. I don't see why anyone would think otherwise), nor do I think the writers meant for the line to "mean" something other that what it says. They meant for Homer to be agreeing with Bart's misanthropic ideas and this was there exagerated humorous way of having him do it. The viewer is of course left to draw his own conclusion about Bart's and Homer's intelligence, but the line is not ironic -- it does not mean the opposite of what it says. The scene, on the other had, is ironic, in that bumbling dufus Homer dignifies Bart's crack-pot ideas* and responds with an eloquent, for Homer, compliment. Sort of in the same way that it's ironic when Homer puts on his little half rim eyeglasses to solve a problem.

*I guess certain Randian objectivist might not conisder the ideas crackpot.
#28
Old 01-30-2007, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GawnFishin'
Do you have a newsletter to which I may subscribe?
I wouldn't go that far, but it certainly might have been one of the early signs of a crack in the foundation.
#29
Old 01-30-2007, 10:26 AM
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I'll have to dig out my copy of Rev. Ivan Stang's HIGH WEIRDNESS BY MAIL for confirmation, but I would not be surprised if he suggested such a line in writing the groups included in the book.
#30
Old 01-30-2007, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyNot
It has nothing to do with Homer in that Homer isn't a real person. Everything he says to us is a message from the writers. When the writer's wrote: "Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter." They meant: "Wow, you're a bleeping idiot." and we the audience know that, especially as it's reinforced by the characters of Lisa and Marge.

A writer writing a sentence that has a literal meaning opposite it's intended meaning is irony. Simple textbook definition.
Okay, my reactions to your points in order:
1. Homer may be a real person, but something that he says starting with the word 'I' still has to do with his character as a concept. (To me, at least.) It's not about him in the same way that it would be able a real flesh and blood person, or even a character in a more sedate and serious work of art or fiction, but it's still about him. Homer Simpson does exist as an idea in our heads, and things can be about him in that sense.

2. I don't tend to interpret what cartoon characters say that way. (Maybe they are or aren't, I don't really care.) Cartoons are just a bunch of funny stuff that happens.

3. I certainly never received that statement that way... don't even think that Homer's terribly idiotic for saying it, though it does get up to about a 4 on the general foolishness scale. (I assume that the you in '...you're a bleeping idiot' is meant to be Homer and not me the viewer.)

4. I guess we just don't agree on the intended meaning of that sentence.

On preview - hi, whole bean! (Got delayed by work while writing this out.)
#31
Old 02-06-2007, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiddity Glomfuster
I think if Lisa had said it it would be irony. Homer lacks the wit for irony.
Come on! What do you call these?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer Simpson
Oooo, look at me! I'm making people happy! I'm the magical man! From happy land! In a gumdrop house on lollipop lane!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer Simpson
Oh, OK Marge, I'll get along with them. Then, I will hug some snakes...yes! Then, I will hug and kiss some poisonous snakes!
The man's a genius!

Sorry to resurrect a week-old thread, but I couldn't let this accusation go unchallenged.
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