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#1
Old 02-24-2010, 04:11 PM
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Helping a 10-week-old infant (and parents) sleep at night

This is such a big and potentially controversial issue in the parenting world, but I'm curious where the Dopers stand on this issue.

Our 10-week-old Boy 2.0 seems to have crested his colicky phase, and is ( :::crossing fingers::: ) establishing more sane, parent-free patterns during the day. Night, however, is getting worse.

He tends to put up an overtired fight starting around 7:15pm or so; he wants to nurse, he wants to be held, he wants rocked, he wants NONE OF THIS, thank you! WAAAAHHH! WAAAAAAHH! WAAA--*thud* Then, he's out until midnight-ish, when he wakes to feed. He eats, then snoozes lying on his side next to me in bed. Problem is, the last few nights, he won't sleep unless he has a boob in his mouth (I'm sure a lot of you Dopers sympathize), which means I have t be on my side, which gets old (and painful) after a while. He fusses, he squirms, he flails, he scratches (accidentally) with those obscenely sharp wittle nails of his. Last night, I managed to pacify him by faking him out with a pacifier (briefly); that held until next fuss cycle. That time around, though, he wouldn't sleep until he was belly-down on my chest and I rocked side to side; that's how both of us wound up sleeping. A few hours later, he was pissed again, so I offered the breast; he nursed, then got mad until I put him a little more on his side. I know we're supposed to lay babies on their backs to sleep, but he HATES that and usually winds up sleep very briefly, or not at all.

I learned my lesson from my first--I thought he was hungry, when in fact he as dependent on the boob for sleep. Weaning him of that was awful. Right now, it seems his little brother is following in his footsteps; I don't think Boy 2.0 is doing a whole lot of eating when he latches at night.

He is healthy, was 7lbs 5oz at birth, and 12lbs 14oz at his 2 month appointment. He has to be over 14lbs by now.

I espoused the attachment parenting thing with my first (though never really the co-sleeping); with this one, the colic has me thinking sleep training ain't so bad. It's not like I haven't heard him cry.

I bought the book Healthy Sleep Habits, Healthy Child and have been skimming it. The tome is HUGE, which is a bit rough with a young infant and preschooler in the house. If any of you use this book, please point out key parts I'm not to miss.

I also have Dr. Sears Baby Book, What to Expect the First Year, and Happiest Baby on the Block from my first bout of parental insomnia.

So Dopers, where do you stand? Cry it out? Co-sleep? Somewhere inbetween? Somewhere off the page? Do share.
#2
Old 02-24-2010, 04:33 PM
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My wife and I are big advocates of Baby Wise. Our 12 week old daughter was sleeping through the night (10-11 hours) in her own bed with the use the steps within this book. We didn't and don't rock her to sleep, we didn't and don't give her a bottle to take to bed. She's almost three now, and has never slept in our bed. She puts herself to sleep and is not afraid of the dark or being left alone. HIGHLY RECOMMEND.
#3
Old 02-24-2010, 04:42 PM
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I think if he is not hungry, in need of a diaper change, or in pain, it's OK to let him cry for a while, but that won't help you sleep. I'm not a fan of Babywise.
#4
Old 02-24-2010, 04:55 PM
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I'm a fan of the Ferber method at this point. I'd like to have seen you teach him to comfort himself and get to sleep without the rocking, holding, boob, etc., when you first brought him home, but what's done is done. (Not a lecture, sorry... just an observation.) Now, or soon enough, you're going to be at a juncture where you'll have to decide how you're going to handle his bedtimes- get him to sleep or teach him to get himself to sleep. Keep in mind that the way you handle the bedtime will also greatly influence what goes on in the middle of the night. If he's taught to comfort himself and get himself to sleep, then he will be able to do the same in the middle of the night. Little dude still is entitled to get up for food in the middle of the night, but after 6 months at the latest, no baby needs to eat in the night. I wish you a lot of luck and nerves of steel, whichever route you choose.
#5
Old 02-24-2010, 05:39 PM
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How long did you say this has been going on? Is there any way he's on a growth spurt or maybe coming down with something? Our daughter's one-month growth spurt lasted about a week; this latest one lasted about a day. I guess what I'm saying is that not all growth spurts last the same amount of time, so it could be that. (I couldn't figure out what the heck was wrong with our kid until I realized that she was suddenly too long for her clothing.)

Anyway, do what feels right to you. Our doc told me it was ok to let my daughter cry when she was 2 months if I felt comfortable with it (I believe her exact comment was, "They have less stamina now."), but said that if I didn't, don't. This is coming from the same woman who advised me to just have our son sleep with us when he was going through a particularly bad phase. (If I haven't mentioned it before, I LOVE my kids' pediatrician - she's the only person who's never made me feel bad about a parenting choice.)

I know that's no help at all, but I don't think there's any right answer that works for everyone. Just go down your list of probably causes and responses and you'll find what works. Then it'll change all over again in a week anyway.

Good luck!

Last edited by overlyverbose; 02-24-2010 at 05:40 PM.
#6
Old 02-24-2010, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbo523 View Post
My wife and I are big advocates of Baby Wise. Our 12 week old daughter was sleeping through the night (10-11 hours) in her own bed with the use the steps within this book. We didn't and don't rock her to sleep, we didn't and don't give her a bottle to take to bed. She's almost three now, and has never slept in our bed. She puts herself to sleep and is not afraid of the dark or being left alone. HIGHLY RECOMMEND.
If you will excuse me for a moment . . .

No, NO, NO!

Ahem.

Babywise is a dangerous and untested intervention that was created by people who have no training or expertise in infant development or medicine. It has caused cases of failure to thrive, and contradicts just about everything we know about the normal biological drives of infants, which makes a weird kind of sense since it was created by fundamentalist Christians who may question evolution.

I am not against sleep training and have done it myself, but the Ezzos are just ignorant whackadoodles who are a danger to children.

Weissbluth isn't great, in my opinion. He takes a very "scare-tactic" approach, threatening that if you don't follow his advice, your kid will be an insomniac for life. None of which is supported by any research whatsoever. And he advocates just dropping your kid and leaving them no matter how long they cry, which I think puts too much stress on the baby and the parents, and is just heartless and antithetical to attachment with your baby.

Three good things I found in Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child - ultra early bedtime, early naptime, and taking them out shortly after breakfast for exercise, fresh air, and sunshine. Other than that, chuck the book.

Pantley has some interesting ideas, and what I did was an extremely gentle version of Ferber.

Full disclosure: there's not much research out there at all on how to help babies sleep and what's healthy and safe.

Most important thing: most resources I have seen say you shouldn't attempt sleep training until your baby is at least 5 months old. Young infants just need you too much, and are too bad at regulating their own biological functions to be left for any long period. At this age, you're usually looking at 3-4 hour blocks of sleep, max. It sucks, but it passes.

I empathize - we were zombies who barely had the power of speech by the time we Ferberized our younger daughter. If I were to have more children, I'd act before it got that bad. But yeah, the first few months just blow.
#7
Old 02-24-2010, 06:35 PM
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I agree with this: I am not against sleep training and have done it myself, but the Ezzos are just ignorant whackadoodles who are a danger to children.

So that said, have you tried Happiest Baby on the Block? Out of all of the sleep books I've read, this was the best. And his Toddler book is awesome as well.

For my kids the important thing about sleep was being ok with the baby being a little bit bored. If I could hear fussing and swoped in too fast, the never slept. But once I got ok with them just complaining a bit, then they'd eventually drop off.

Good luck, sleep is just about the toughest issue to deal with in that first year.
#8
Old 02-24-2010, 10:43 PM
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Call Grandma!!
#9
Old 02-25-2010, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruffian View Post
He tends to put up an overtired fight starting around 7:15pm or so...
Does putting him in a rocker bed and rocking it at 6:30 work? It's what worked with The Niece (who is an early sleeper).

Don't worry about the sleeping position. Some kids can sleep face up or face down or on their side, some have a clear preference. Whichever works for yours.
#10
Old 02-25-2010, 01:28 AM
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Baby Wise sounds like what my mother put us all through until the pediatrician told her "Jesus, woman, if she's hungry after 3 hours do not keep her crying for one, FEED HER!"

Last edited by Nava; 02-25-2010 at 01:31 AM.
#11
Old 02-25-2010, 03:50 AM
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Listen to Unauthorized Cinnamon, for she is wise.

Other than that, I just want to say:

Huge sympathies. This is a really sucky stage. And just to make you really happy, with my own kids it got worse before it got better (our nadir was about the 7-8 month mark)

Also, I've known at least three babies who were Dedicated Tummy Sleepers, and their parents pretty much had to just give in and let them do it. Aint none of them dead yet . Not that the anti-SIDS campaigns are wrong to recommend against it, but as far as risk factors go it's not the biggest (that would be smoking) and give it a few more weeks and Boy 2.0 may even be able to flip over by himself anyway.
#12
Old 02-25-2010, 04:55 AM
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I have a 6 month old daughter and a 2 yr old son - co-sleep. definitely!

We've always slept better with the babies in the bed (babies included). I keep a bassinet beside the bed, when baby is good and asleep I'll put her there and she sleeps for a good chunk of time. Once the baby wakes up, she comes to bed with us and stays there. The toddler goes to sleep in his bed now (never really used a crib and went straight to a big bed) and when he wakes up and he comes in and goes back to sleep. Works great for us.
#13
Old 02-25-2010, 05:49 AM
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I've been incredibly lucky that my 3 month old is good at self settling - but some things that I recall did work for us at 10 weeks (I have her in a bassinette next to our bed, and feed on demand).

She tended to cluster feed, and would be attached to either boob between 6-9 most evenings - I finally worked out it was a comfort thing, and a pacifier worked.

Try another pacifier - she loves Avent, hates Nuk. I also sometimes have to give it a couple of goes (in my head it's because it's too cold) before she'll take it.

Do you swaddle? That worked really well for me, although now at almost 16 weeks she can roll over now so it's not safe.

I had good results with Happiest Baby for settling, and others I know recommend Save Our Sleep (I like the concept as a first time mum because it gives me a rough idea of how much sleep she needs at different times, but not that it's so rigid. I let her feed and sleep when she wants - just encourage it if I think she's due).

Have you tried heating his bed with a wheatbag (not to leave with him) so that it's warm when you put him down? Also, sleeping with his bedding can give it your smell so he thinks he's with you. I've ordered myself a cuski sleep comforter to begin to wean her off the pacifier - this is meant to work well for some people.

Are his naps in the day long enough? I heard that sleep breeds sleep - if he's only getting short 45 min naps during the day (only 1 sleep cycle), he's probably overtired at night, which may make it harder to get him to go down. She's having 2hrs in the morning, 2 in the early afternoon and a nap around 4-5. I took lots of long walks which seemed to help settle her.

At 10 weeks a dream feed might work as well? I put her down around 7pm, and dream feed around 10.30 - this fills her up so that she can get through to anywhere between 4-7am.

If none of this helps, I've heard good things also about Baby Love from the mums in my mothers' group, and also there are some good articles from a NZ site called Sleep Store.

In terms of cry it out - from what I've read(PDF), babies under 3-6 months are too young to 'learn' not to cry, so I don't let her go very long without coming to her (although I don't lift her out, just settle with a hand patting to heart beat rate) - it's that which will build trust and security making self-settling as an older baby easier.

Good luck, and I hope you're doing OK - while I think this motherhood thing is so much less mentally taxing and stressful than my job, the emotional side can be devastating. Keep reaching out for support.
#14
Old 02-25-2010, 08:31 AM
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I never ever let my child cry it out, especially because it went against every instinct I had as a mother. Later I read Harvard study about the consequences of letting a baby cry-it-out. Here's a recap: http://askdrsears.com/html/10/handout2.asp

To me, it sounds like your son is going through a typical growth spurt. Do you have a sling you can nurse him in so you don't have to be lying down?
#15
Old 02-25-2010, 08:56 AM
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Two words: Miracle Blanket

Josie was sleeping through the night at six weeks with it.
#16
Old 02-25-2010, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbo523 View Post
...She's almost three now, and has never slept in our bed...
If you've never had your child sleep in your bed, you are missing out on what is truly one of the simplest joys in life.

We used the "go through the checklist of things that could be wrong, and then let them cry themselves to sleep" method on our daughters. Is she fed? Check. Clean diaper? Check. No fever? Check. Gas? Check. Room not too warm/cold? Check. After that, we'd leave her in her crib, turn a nightlight and some soft music on, and let her cry. If it lasted for more than 5 minutes, we'd go to the door and sooth her with words, or stand by her crib for a couple of minutes and rub her back. If that didn't calm her down, we'd pick them up, rock 'em a bit until they calmed down, and put them back in the crib. Rinse and repeat. We found the longer we did this, it became less and less common to have to pick them up.

Don't get me wrong, it was painful to just let them cry. There were times where my wife and I would just sit outside their doors listening to them, but we supported each other in our decision to not run to them with every whimper and rock them to sleep.

Both of our daughters were sleeping soundly at about 7 weeks with only minimal fussing right when we but them to bed. We'd have to wake them for feedings during the night.

Meh. It worked for us.
#17
Old 02-25-2010, 09:45 AM
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I know this is a very touchy subject for some people, but if you consider cosleeping, please look into it from both sides. The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission does not recommend cosleeping, and the American Academy of Pediatrics agrees. There were 515 deaths of infants between 1990 and 1997 directly caused by cosleeping. Sure, your baby probably won't die from it- if you feel comfortable doing it, by all means do it, but I sure wouldn't. Here's an article about it.
#18
Old 02-25-2010, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspidistra View Post
Listen to Unauthorized Cinnamon, for she is wise.

Other than that, I just want to say:

Huge sympathies. This is a really sucky stage. And just to make you really happy, with my own kids it got worse before it got better (our nadir was about the 7-8 month mark)

Also, I've known at least three babies who were Dedicated Tummy Sleepers, and their parents pretty much had to just give in and let them do it. Aint none of them dead yet . Not that the anti-SIDS campaigns are wrong to recommend against it, but as far as risk factors go it's not the biggest (that would be smoking) and give it a few more weeks and Boy 2.0 may even be able to flip over by himself anyway.
Why thank you!

And I tend to agree - I was paranoid with my girls, but if I had another, I think I might just let her sleep on her tummy. If you don't smoke, use a firm mattress, no covers or soft toys, breastfeed, and sleep in the same room, you're using so many precautions, it might be worth the risk. N.B. this goes against all medical and safety advice, and I'm not advocating that you do it. However, my kids' doctor told me she did it.

Swaddling is great, and I agree with trying out different pacifiers and encouraging mom-free soothing.

Speaking of which, even Dr. Sears, who is vehemently against cry it out, notes that crying in a loving parent's arms is totally different from crying in a crib alone. So if you want to teach your baby to fall asleep without a nipple in his mouth, or fall back to sleep without a visit from Mommy, it is perfectly legitimate to refuse to provide those things, and for the mother or father to hold and console the baby as they learn their first lesson of coping with being denied something they want. This results in less sleep for you all in the short term, but more in the long term.

I'm happy to share how we modified Ferber to fit our philosophy and needs, if you are interested!
#19
Old 02-25-2010, 09:48 AM
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I never had to use Baby Wise or any other book to get my kids to sleep, but I know a couple dozen people who have. Every complaint about the book I've ever seen has been someone bitching about the fundie authors, or about how it is unscientific, but I don't know anyone who has used the book & hasn't loved it. From what I understand, they put a lot of emphasis on providing a full feeding when the child eats, but I don't suppose that is the controversial part.
#20
Old 02-25-2010, 10:05 AM
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Whoa, lots to respond to! First of all, any sleep training--or at least, significant sleep changes--need to wait a few days. Boy 1.0, age 3.75, was diagnosed yesterday with restrictive airway disease (similar to asthma) and has to have a nebulizer every 2-3 hours as well as an oral steroid every 12. His wheezing and coughing are keeping him from sleep, which is making him a VERY cranky, emotional, overtired preschooler. He was a basket case at the doctor's office yesterday, screaming and sobbing the whole time and sometimes sobbing, "I can't bweeve!" Because of his need of the nebulizer, he's not going to preschool. The Oh Joy in this: the oral steroid might make him irritable; the medication in the nebulizer might make him jittery. The Awesome! in this: running around will make his condiiton worse. So--we have to keep a sleep-deprived, jittery, irritable preschooler home and try to limit his need to gallop around the house. OOF.

I will say I've noticed Boy 2.0 will sometimes cry when I place him in his swing, but if I don't race right to him (say, I'm in the shower), he may fall asleep on his own. That's what made me consider CIO techniques. Last night I tried the CIO-comfort-CIO thing, and after a while, this Mommy just couldn't hear her kids cry anymore. I got him, wrapped him in a blanket, gave him a pacifier (Girl From Mars, he does seem to prevent Avent pacis), and held him until he fell asleep around 8:30pm. When I did put him down in his crib around 9:30pm, I lay him on his side instead of his back.

When at 1:10am he hadn't yet awakened to be fed, I did the worried mommy thing and tiptoed in to check on him. He was, stunningly, still asleep. He did wake up at 1:45 to feed, but I was absolutely amazed he slept that long. He came to bed with me then, waking at 4:45am to eat and then squirmy a bit at 5:45am. I put him in his swing after changing him, and he's out again now.

Girl From Mars, you are right that sleep breeds sleep. Yesterday, Boy 2.0 slept 2.5 hours in his crib during his afternoon nap. I was stunned. I dared place him belly-down for it (which the pediatrician said at his 2 month appointment was okay at his age, at least for naps, as long as we watch him), and like at 1:10am last night found myself tiptoeing in frequently to check on him. Aspidistra, it's good to know others have dedicated tummy/side snoozers!

Unauthorized Cinnamon and others in the anti-Baby Wise crowd--after what I read with my first about the authors of that program, I more or less decided "Hell no." It's not at all for us. I definitely support feeding on demand, but it seems I'm not quite to the Dr. Sears level.

Hedda Rose, your commen and others had me rereading Happiest Baby on the Block last night. I didn't realize the last chapter was about sleep (I focus so much on the fussy/colicky chapters), so I read up on it last night. I just might try swaddling him tonight and for his nap. He has been able to squirm out of any and every swaddling attempt for the last month or so, but it sounds like it's worth trying.

Boy 1.0 just came in to watch a cartoon, so while he does that (and "bweeves") and Boy 1.0 is still asleep, I'm going to risk a shower.

Last edited by Ruffian; 02-25-2010 at 10:08 AM.
#21
Old 02-25-2010, 10:14 AM
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Crap, missed the edit window. Boy 1.0 is watching Sprout, Boy 2.0 is asleep. I also wanted to clarify it's not just the authors of Baby Wise that turned me off; it was the program's scheduling approach that just went against my instincts.

Still, I'm wondering how much it matters when the kids are, say, 5 years old what sleep training they went through (if any). More research to do, I suppose.

Now, that whole showering thing...gonna do it, really...
#22
Old 02-25-2010, 10:19 AM
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My son never liked to sleep on his back. He started nursing mostly from one side and refusing the other. He would fuss and cry and sometimes scream when he was laid on his back. We took him to the doc who told me that it was nothing, scolded me for coddling etc. Turns out it was a tumor; We were lucky that it was benign. If the doctor had followed through, and paid attention when I asked about his cafe au lait spots, we would have found out 4 months sooner. Sometimes there is a reason for the fussing.

Sleeping on the side is not the worst. Do read up on SIDS, there have been many discoveries about its nature in the last two years, some of which might put your mind at ease. Crying when you are there holding him, or in the same room where he can hear you and knows you are near is much different than letting him cry out alone.

Labrador Deceiver the complaints I read were that babywise has been associated with failure to thrive and dehydration.
#23
Old 02-25-2010, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice The Goon View Post
I know this is a very touchy subject for some people, but if you consider cosleeping, please look into it from both sides. The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission does not recommend cosleeping, and the American Academy of Pediatrics agrees. There were 515 deaths of infants between 1990 and 1997 directly caused by cosleeping. Sure, your baby probably won't die from it- if you feel comfortable doing it, by all means do it, but I sure wouldn't. Here's an article about it.
And cribs and playards account for about 43 deaths per year. Cite. So since you're risking child death!!! either way you go, you might as well choose the way that is the most comfortable and leads to everyone sleeping better. Whatever that happens to be for you.

Edit: Regarding the "kid squirming out of the swaddling" thing; try the Miracle Blanket that Drain Bead mentioned. My sister had one for my niece and swore by it. My niece had to be tightly swaddled in order to sleep well, and she could get out of regular swaddling in like a minute flat. But the Miracle Blanket kept her snuggly and happy.

Last edited by MsWhich; 02-25-2010 at 10:27 AM.
#24
Old 02-25-2010, 10:34 AM
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There are hot button topics and then there are HOT BUTTON TOPICS, like How-To-Get-Your-Child-To-Sleep which is right up there with Toilet Paper Over/Under Argument.


Everyone has an opinion and everyone out there feels theirs is THE RIGHT ONE, DAMMIT.


That said.

Here is a molotov cocktail for the hot button topic fire:


Get a hot water bottle and fill it with....warm to hot (not scalding)WATER. Dry it off and put it in with your baby. PUt the bottle on their stomach. They are not going to die or smother with it because it won't adhere to their mouth and nose and it is too heavy for them too lift. When they can lift it, I promise you, they will toss it out of bed for fun! When they get teeth, they won't eat it because it tastes like RUBBER and it's craptacular. If they do bite through it, they will get wet, and by the time they do bite through it, the water will probably be tepid and they will get a splooshing.

My kids, (who are now 11 and 10, who also co-slept and tummy slept AND and a big ass down comforter on them courtesy of their German Grandmother. I'm such a horrible mother. ) still LOVE THEIR HOT WATER BOTTLES. And they didn't die.

A Miracle Blanket, AFAICT is just a yuppified version of a baby burrito.
Wrap the child up like he was a huge spliff. They love this. ( I wrap my kids up just about every night in the winter like the worlds biggest doobs.) Double wrapping them, one regular baby blanket for the first layer and then a lap size blanket for the second to keep the most persistant wigglers in their place should do the trick.

Hell, I even love it. Who wouldn't want to be wrapped up securely like that? One day, I'm getting me a weighed blanket, but for now, the 6# cat will do.

Another suggestion is get a noise machine that mimicks the womb or put a fan in the room.

Make whatever it is you use for comforting PORTABLE. (It needs to go to Grandma's or the sitters or to the HOliday Inn.) I have a Sound Sleeper for myself.
#25
Old 02-25-2010, 12:46 PM
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Just wanted to say that you have my sympathies on the respiratory issues! One of the primary reasons we wound up co-sleeping with our son was that his lungs would fill up with fluid every freaking time he'd get a cold and we needed him nearby to administer albuterol. He also had to take a lung steroid once for a particularly bad infection, which was just awful. They called me at daycare to tell me he had a fever and by the time I got there, I couldn't wake him up! So the pediatrician prescribed a steroid with the same warnings. If it helps any, it wasn't the steroid that made him jittery; it was actually the albuterol, but your mileage will inevitably vary. Are they also giving him antibiotics? My son's pediatrician said that the steroid often results in a secondary infection because it opens up the tubes in the lungs so much that bacteria get in more easily or something along those lines. Just curious.

Anyway, I'm glad you've had some success with the napping. Our daughter is also not a napper, though I'm very lucky - she usually sleeps 8-10 hours at night. I'm not sure that's necessarily a good thing, though, since I can't tell if it's a result of her makeup or exhaustion. We and the daycare encourage longer naps, but it never seems to work. So, after she sleeps all night, I generally go in and wake her at 6:15 to feed and just bring her to bed with us for the rest of the morning.

Personally, I think that for parents sleep is a lose-lose proposition for at least the first few months, sometimes until they're two or so. First, if they don't sleep, you're exhausted from being woken up all night. If they do sleep, you're exhausted because you wake up all night wondering why they're asleep. My first still sometimes wakes up at night at 3.5, which can really wipe us out. But with #2, I make myself crazy checking up on her, thinking, "Is she ok? Still breathing? Isn't she hungry?" I even called the pediatrician once to ask if she thought there might be a problem because she was sleeping so much. I hope I'll start getting some sleep myself maybe in a year or so.

Second, as you noted, how you get your kids to sleep becomes a subject of controversy.
#26
Old 02-25-2010, 01:08 PM
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Part of the problem is that so many accept that parents aren't going to get any sleep, sometimes until the kid's two! It's so unnecessary. Babies can be sleep trained. It seems to me it's just the natural thing to do. I have three kids, so it's not like I could let every new baby disrupt the entire family and our schedules for up to two years. Am I the only one that just thinks that idea is utterly ridiculous?

With my first baby, his pediatrician told me to -right home from the hospital- put him to bed while awake, so that he could learn to get himself to sleep. She stressed to me so hard that it was important to do this. I was 21, and I thought, "Oh hell no- I'm rocking my precious to sleep, it's for the best." I went back to her when he was 5 months, out of my mind with sleeplessness and his crying at night. She then told me that I'd had to Ferberize my way out of it, showed me how to do it, I did it, and we all got sleep after that. With my second one, I was half-assed about it, and again, had to go through Ferberizing, which we can all agree is heart-breaking. My third came along, and right away I started with putting him to bed while he was still awake, and letting him teach himself how to get to sleep, including when he woke in the night, as we all do, after he no longer needed to eat in the night, at four months. He ended up sleeping more than either of the first two- every night right to bed with no arguments, good long naps throughout the appropriate ages, never any problems with sleep whatsoever, for the past 11 years.

I would never go back to rocking a baby to sleep, laying down with it, etc. It's just so much better when your baby can get to sleep without all that.
#27
Old 02-25-2010, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice The Goon View Post
Part of the problem is that so many accept that parents aren't going to get any sleep, sometimes until the kid's two! It's so unnecessary. Babies can be sleep trained. It seems to me it's just the natural thing to do. I have three kids, so it's not like I could let every new baby disrupt the entire family and our schedules for up to two years. Am I the only one that just thinks that idea is utterly ridiculous?
For what it's worth, I was being facetious. (Well, kinda - I really do still check on our three-month old because she sleeps so well, but that's my problem, not hers.) But, I do think how you handle sleeping should take into consideration the kid's temperament.

For some kids, you can try dedicated, patient Ferberizing for weeks (like we did with our son) and still have no results. For others, they take right to it. Our pediatrician was actually the person who told us to just take him to bed with us. Her comment was, "Great, you've tried it. It didn't work. Apparently your son didn't read the same books you did, so try something else."
#28
Old 02-25-2010, 01:34 PM
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Oh sorry, I wasn't specifically talking about you- the comment just reminded me that some parents are really extreme about getting their kid to sleep. I've known parents that will spend literally two or three hours every night trying to get their kid to sleep- not just babies but toddlers, up to four or five years old! Taking that much time out of your life to tend to one family member is not fair to you, your marriage, or your other family members (generic you). I've become very passionate about this subject over the years, not only from my own experience but hearing about others'.

As for Ferberizing, what a lot of people don't seem to know is that if you start a healthy sleep program right out of the hospital, from birth, then you never have to Ferberize. The Ferber method is used to break bad sleep habits- but they never have to start to begin with.
#29
Old 02-25-2010, 01:42 PM
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There are no hard and fast rules with babies. They each have his/her own unique personality. So, keep doing what you're doing and asking for methods that have worked with other people. Eventually you'll come across one that will prove helpful.

My husband's aunts swear that the key to getting a baby to sleep through the night is by feeding them a few teaspoons of baby cereal mixed with formula/milk before they go to bed.

I, personally, found that "white noise" is invaluable for helping both infants and adults sleep better. I think they have tapes that you can buy, but I always just used an old fan (that wasn't pointed at the baby). Too quiet and they end up startling at the slightest noise.

I also discovered with both babies that once they hit a certain weight (12 pounds?), they slept a lot better. I think itty bitty babies' bellies are so small that they need to eat more often.
#30
Old 02-25-2010, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice The Goon View Post
Oh sorry, I wasn't specifically talking about you- the comment just reminded me that some parents are really extreme about getting their kid to sleep. I've known parents that will spend literally two or three hours every night trying to get their kid to sleep- not just babies but toddlers, up to four or five years old! Taking that much time out of your life to tend to one family member is not fair to you, your marriage, or your other family members (generic you). I've become very passionate about this subject over the years, not only from my own experience but hearing about others'.
No worries. And I agree with you that spending so long putting one family member to sleep is excessive, particularly for a healthy toddler (it doesn't help that they have so much more stamina).

Another thing that's important to note (and it's probably been touched on) is that five to six hours is considered sleeping through the night by most pediatricians. My understanding is that even breastfed babies should only be waking up 1 time, 2 times max, at the three-month mark. Of course, that all goes out the window when they're growing or sick.
#31
Old 02-25-2010, 07:43 PM
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AUGH. Got Boy 2.0 down for his nap; things looked GREAT, like he was in position to nap 2+ hours again like yesterday. Then Boy 1.0, in his medically hyperactive state, stubbed his toe and his "OW!" was in dramatic, high volume, high drama fashion...and woke up Boy 2.0. It took 30min to get the baby back down, and even then, I had him sleeping on my chest--I didn't dare move him. Finally got the sick preschooler down for his nap 3 hours late when the baby wakes up and cries; hubby (who took the day off to help) just strapped Boy 1.0 into the Baby Bjorn and went for a walk. Oof.

Thank GOD there's only two of them. Three or more, and we'd be outnumbered.

Any kind of crying it out is postponed at least a few days.

overlyverbose, ah, so glad to hear from a been-there-done-that parent. Although, it seems unusual to me that our son is getting this for the first time at nearly 4 years old; seems the sort of thing that shows up younger. But, eh, whaddoIknow. He has not been irritable, thankfully, but he HAS been very wired. The albuterol has made him BOINGBOINGBOING. Very cutely BOINGBOINGBOING, though, at least; he's polite and playful and bright eyed. I know when I had to use a nebulizer for the flu in October, I felt like a million bucks after (oxygen! it's feels SO GOOD!). I wonder if that might be part of his good mood; feeling better is such an exciting relief.
#32
Old 02-26-2010, 01:31 PM
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For as many of the anti-Baby Wise crowd, there are just as many that find it a very useful method of getting your child to sleep regularly at night. So .

One thing that I do know, is that all kids are different, and one thing that may work for one child may not work for another, even from the same parents.
#33
Old 08-18-2016, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Omar Little View Post
My wife and I are big advocates of Baby Wise. Our 12 week old daughter was sleeping through the night (10-11 hours) in her own bed with the use the steps within this book. We didn't and don't rock her to sleep, we didn't and don't give her a bottle to take to bed. She's almost three now, and has never slept in our bed. She puts herself to sleep and is not afraid of the dark or being left alone. HIGHLY RECOMMEND.
DO NOT USE BABYWISE. Babies have DIED because of their recommendations!

Whenever we get one donated to the library (usually unread, BTW), we put it in the recycle bin because we don't want other people getting their hands on it.

ETA: Didn't realize this was a revived zombie thread. I would imagine that the OP's kids sleep nicely through the night now that they are in school.

Last edited by nearwildheaven; 08-18-2016 at 08:06 PM.
#34
Old 08-18-2016, 08:46 PM
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I think it depends on the individual kid. Our first quickly started sleeping through the night. The second, no matter what we did, just wouldn't sleep more than a couple of hours at a time. Let him cry it out? We tried. We eventually found out he had sensory integration issues. Note that it was like that from the beginning. Finally we got a futon and I would go lie down with him. This was after a year. Now, as a sixteen year old, he has no problem sleeping past noon.
#35
Old 08-18-2016, 09:31 PM
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I'd nurse my son, burp him, change him then place him in his Moses basket on top of the dryer, which I turned on to a rumbly cycle. Thanks to the dryer, he'd fall soundly asleep within five minutes. Then I'd move him to his crib, where he slept till morning. The dryer never failed. Of course, it helps if you have your laundry room on the same floor as the bedrooms. I don't think I'd have carried down to a dryer in the cellar.
#36
Old 08-19-2016, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar Little View Post
My wife and I are big advocates of Baby Wise. Our 12 week old daughter was sleeping through the night (10-11 hours) in her own bed with the use the steps within this book. We didn't and don't rock her to sleep, we didn't and don't give her a bottle to take to bed. She's almost three now, and has never slept in our bed. She puts herself to sleep and is not afraid of the dark or being left alone. HIGHLY RECOMMEND.
Read a great deal about the health hazards of this method before you consider it. This book was designed to create a guilt free way for parents to isolate and ignore their kid when they get too inconvenient and has nothing to do with the welfare of the child.
#37
Old 08-19-2016, 10:59 AM
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The most important thing to remember is "this too shall pass." Kids go through developmental milestones and growth spurts and whatnot sometimes from one week or even one day to the next. While it might be a hassle sometimes you just need to accept that the next week is gonna suck and then things will settle out again.
There was a point, for about a week, where our little one would only settle if we sang a song in 4/4 time. But that was just a week, no big deal.
The trick is to experiment and see what works. No book is going to help you determine what your baby needs to day. Feed 'em when they're hungry, hold as much as possible and play tag team as often as you can. If it is just you for extended periods hire a baby sitter while you go up and have a nap.
For your current problem I would suggest nursing before bed in a higher stimulation environment. Put on some snappy music and keep moving and talking to him. than lie down with him without nursing for a few minutes. stroke his back, hum or talk quietly. If he is crying for just fussiness sake blow gently on his face briefly. Distraction is your friend. Even if it take 15 or 20 minutes for him to nod off it sounds like that would be an improvement.
#38
Old 08-19-2016, 11:02 AM
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I failed to notice Zombification as well.
Maybe it will be useful to somebody anyway.
#39
Old 08-19-2016, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Alice The Goon View Post
There were 515 deaths of infants between 1990 and 1997 directly caused by cosleeping. Sure, your baby probably won't die from it- if you feel comfortable doing it, by all means do it, but I sure wouldn't. [URL="http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/sleep/cosleeping.html"]
Oh my god. Someone's kid died.

In eight years, there were 515 deaths. So about 65 deaths a year.

In 1997, there were about 3,881,000 babies born in the US. This is approximatey 0.0016% of the births.

Yup. 99.9984% of the babies were OK.

BUT SOMEONE DIED!

This number is dwarfed by the number of babies killed in automobile accidents, but we accept that risk and go on with our lives.

Part of parenting is understanding not everything which seems scary is really so.

After the Fukushima nuclear accident, we took our two kids, (2, and 4 months) down to Taiwan. After it became clear that the greater part of the danger was over, we were considering taking them back. We were in Taipei and the in-laws were driving us somewhere. My wife was very much opposed to taking them back but I pointed out that the in-laws didn't have a car seat(!) for the kids. You tell me which is more dangerous.

As for crying it out versus not, there really aren't any good studies done. Some kids are easier than others and so just listening to people give their anecdotal spiels really isn't helpful.

How do you feel about it? Can you do it? Will the baby respond?

My wife and I co-slept, my wife lost a fair amount of sleep during some periods and I took my turn as well, but that was us.
#40
Old 08-19-2016, 12:39 PM
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Man, I saw this and I was all "huh, didn't know Ruffian had a little baby....?" She don't, turns out.

Also, BabyWise is child abuse.
#41
Old 08-19-2016, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoBayer View Post
Oh my god. Someone's kid died.

In eight years, there were 515 deaths. So about 65 deaths a year.

In 1997, there were about 3,881,000 babies born in the US. This is approximatey 0.0016% of the births.

Yup. 99.9984% of the babies were OK.

BUT SOMEONE DIED!
Yeah, This is on par with the number of babies killed by family pets. And I don't see anyone campaigning to ban them.
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