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Old 02-01-2001, 04:06 PM
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Can doctors prescibe you steroids like testosterone or other mass and strength building steroids or not?
Old 02-01-2001, 04:13 PM
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Come on, Bill, you've been here long enough to know some of the ground rules. Could you give us some clue why the answer isn't obvious to you?

(To me, the answer is obviously "yes they can", because all the articles i've seen about steroids talk about the ethics of unfair athletic advantage, and/or the tradeoff of short-term benefits vs long-term dangers, but i've never heard of anyone arrested for illegal steroid trafficking.)

Oh, and IIUC, testosterone is a hormone, not a steroid. (unless hormones are steroids...)
Old 02-01-2001, 04:14 PM
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I get a steroid shot whenever I have a poison ivy rash because I am terribly horribly disgustingly nausiatingly allergic. So I would say yes, but I don't know if those are the same steroids that get athletes expelled from the olympics.
Old 02-01-2001, 04:25 PM
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OK, let's get to the heart of the matter. Yes, a doctor can prescribe steroids, hormones, whatever. But no, a doctor isn't going to prescribe you steroids just so you can look buff at your high-school reunion.

You want to look buff? Eat less and exercise more. Nuff said.
Old 02-01-2001, 04:31 PM
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Yes doctors can prescribe "steriods" When I was age 7 I was proscribed it in small amounts for a year to help strengthen my eye for surgery. Its not like they were prescribing it for "recreational use"
Old 02-01-2001, 04:34 PM
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Bill,

Doctors use many different steroids for many different purposes. Hydrocortisone Cream is available over the counter, and it is a steroid. They are heavily used to combat inflammation, in oral, and injectable forms. The most powerful are prescription drugs, including all the injectable forms. The drugs are not harmful, if used in moderation, for the specific purpose of recovering from an injury or disease.

Use as an enhancement to physical development is a defensible medical procedure if the increase in strength, or muscle mass is a medically significant need to overcome a pathological deficit. Even then, long term use is dangerous, and must be monitored to prevent the many undesired extraparametal effects.

Medical use for sports performance enhancement is malpractice, and strictly against the rules of all reputable sports organizations. It is illegal to obtain, or use, or transfer prescription medication in the United States, without proper license.
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Old 02-01-2001, 04:48 PM
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Woe getting some hostile feedback here.

And lemur,

I DO work out very hard. But I think this whole illegal steroid mess is just because this country is so fanatical about who can carry some pigskin across a a line a 100yrds away. Or who can throw a basketball through a hoop.

Which is fine. If people want to spend their leisure time like that, more power to them. But they have inacted laws saying HOW bad steroid use is because nobody wants their little small town football team to have an edge over theirs.

Lets face it that is why they are illegal because of sports. Especially when they put roids in the same category as morphine and amphetamines. That is simply ridiculous.

If they govt doesn't want the country's PRECIOUS sports manipulated, than they should have a minimum age for steroid use like they do alcohol. Lets face it alcohol causes more harm than steroids ever could and it is legal after 21.

So why don't they make roids legal after say...30(because after 30 there arn't very many atheletes left in pro sports anyway.

The reason I ask if doctors could prescribe them is because I don't mind being monitored by a doctor.

So if someone was being monitored by a physician, what would it hurt if they would prescribe them to people that would use them responsibly. That is all I was asking not to get lectured because ya'll don't like'em.
Old 02-01-2001, 04:52 PM
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My mother received regular injections of steroids during her final illness, in addition to taking them orally (I won't name the specific steroids as the abuse of them is quite common among athletes). Her doctor had to obtain authorisation to prescribe the injections and the dispensing of them was extremely strictly controlled.

Here at least, supplying steroids for non-approved purposes is against the law and there are especially harsh penalties for doctors involved in the inappropriate supply of steroids for non-medical use.

A great many of the steroids which are illegally supplied here were developed for veterinary use and haven't been tested for humans, making the risks involved in using them for reasons of vanity or performance enhancement mind-boggling.
Old 02-01-2001, 05:49 PM
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Basic stuff

First, if you have a drug and look at the insert, it will almost always have the chemical structure.

If you see a 6 sided figured and a 5 sided figure sharing a side so they look connected - that's a steroid. They are carbon rings.

I can only assume you mean muscle enhancing steroids because steroids in general do many things. I've had eye drops that had steroids in them.

Tibs.
Old 02-01-2001, 05:57 PM
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So find a doctor who is willing to monitor your health and prescribe you the drugs, or go to your local Gold's gym and talk to the bodybuilders there. I think the Government's stance is that anabolic steroids are easily abused and the health risks are significant for abusers. Coming off the drug will make you lose any gains that you made during your cycle, and may cause additional hormonal imbalances as your body will not be accustomed to having to make its own testosterone.

That said, I've heard of AIDS patients who have been given steroids to counteract some of the wasting that the disease can cause. Some gay males with AIDS love it, in that they can get buff while keeping their health up. So Bill, what you need to do is contract some kind of wasting disease, and then your doctor will prescribe all the nandrolone decanoate you need.
Old 02-01-2001, 06:05 PM
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Bill-do you have any idea WHAT steroids will do to your body? Not just bulk up! Guys usually end up with breasts and testicle shrinkage, IIRC. Girls end up with facial hair and lower voices, or something like that.

And yes, some steroids can be medical-like cortisone, as mentioned. My cat is on cortisone pills sometimes because of a gum disease.
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Old 02-01-2001, 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by Aestivalis

Quote:
So Bill, what you need to do is contract some kind of wasting disease, and then your doctor will prescribe all the nandrolone decanoate you need. [/B]
Well, I want to be big but I don't want to go that far.

But seriously am I right or not about sports being the reason why they are illegal. Let's face it alcohol causes all kinds of health problems(alot more than steroids) yet it isn't illegal especially class 3 drug like anabolic steroids are.
Old 02-01-2001, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wildest Bill
Woe getting some hostile feedback here.
I intended no hostility. You asked, I gave you what information I had. Your question led me to believe that you had very little knowledge of steroids, other than apocryphal stories of their benefits and the extreme cases of abuse. The real information is far more complex than that.

Occasional use, for injury recovery, and long term use for chronic medical conditions are very different things. Sports use attempts to gain the short-term benefit with long term use. That doesnít work out the way athletes expect.

Quote:
So if someone was being monitored by a physician, what would it hurt if they would prescribe them to people that would use them responsibly. That is all I was asking not to get lectured because ya'll don't like'em.
Using them long term (for more than fourteen to twenty one days) involves a lot of subtle and some not so subtle risks. Sports performance is not a good medical reason for taking those risks. If someone was being monitored by a physician, the physician would advise them not to do it. If that physician failed to do so, he would be guilty of criminal negligence, and malpractice. It has nothing to do with sports. Thatís the point. Itís about the practice of medicine.

The issue of government control over medicine and drugs is a separate and unrelated issue. I donít favor drug laws, mostly because they donít work. I still think it is foolish, and dangerous to take steroids, whatever the law might say. Seeking a doctor to write a prescription for what you already want is not seeking his professional skill. It just means you want to get around the law, and make him commit the crime for you.
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Old 02-01-2001, 06:53 PM
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My wife had to take steriods the day before, the day of, and the day after chemotherapy sessions as to avoid some of the chemotherapy side effects. Just 3 days at a time, one tiny little pill each day.

Here's the interesting part: On the fourth and fifth day, she had a bad case of the shakes...we asked the doctor about this and he said it was due to withdrawl!

Sheesh! That kinda freaked me out! After only 3 days of use! Powerful stuff dude...
Old 02-01-2001, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wildest Bill
But seriously am I right or not about sports being the reason why they are illegal.
The General Answer to "why are they illegal" is that duly constituted legislatures have made them so.

As to "why would they do such a thing," well, that might make an interesting, or even Great (wait for it) Debate.
Old 02-01-2001, 07:38 PM
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Oral inhaled steroids are one of the most common remedies for asthma. I've used them and they helped me out immensely.

My brother took a different kind for cluster headaches.

According to the USP DI, other uses for anabolic streroids include:

1) to help patients gain weight after a severe illness, injury, or continuing infection. They also are used when patients fail to gain or maintain normal weight because of unexplained medical reasons.

2) to treat certain types of anemia.

3) to treat certain kinds of breast cancer in some women.

4) to treat hereditary angioedema, which causes swelling of the face, arms, legs, throat, windpipe, bowels, or sexual
organs.
Old 02-01-2001, 08:31 PM
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First, let us differentiate quite broadly between two different classes of steroids:

1)Anti-inflammatories, including cortisone, prednisone, medrol, prednisolone, and most types used in eye drops, topical creams, and pill forms to fight asthma and other disease states involving an overly active inflammatory response. Rheumatoid arthritis and other auto-immune diseases fall into this class. These types are not controlled substances in the states, but the stronger ones require prescriptions. These kinds are not sought after by athletes looking to build muscles. They are normally produced in the adrenal glands.

2) Anabolic steroids. These include testosterone, estrogen, nandrolone, and others. The are structurally similar to anti-inflammatory steroids, but act differently. Broadly again, the estrogenic types build breast tissue, fat accumulation, and help female gonadal development. Produced in ovaries. Testosterone and its synthetic kin like nandrolone promote muscle development, hair growth (except they tend to accelerate male-pattern baldness), and help (along with other factors) to drive the libido. Generally produced in the testicles.
Use outside sources of testosterone (like nandrolone) and you'll build muscle mass if you work out, increase body hair, perhaps deepen your voice a bit. Your testicles will also shrink, as they'll see all the nandrolone flooding the system, and think "eh, what's the point of cranking out testosterone, someone else is doing it" and go dormant, perhaps for good, with prolonged use.
Then there's the fun side effect of steroid psychosis, possible with too much of any steroid, but more common with excess testosterone. Dissociation from reality, violence, and beer chugging contests are common.

My advice: Unless you have a disease state which requires use of steroids, let your own body do the job with the adrenals and gonads. We don't know a lot about the long-term risks and benefits of their use.

Qadgop, MD

(All the above was written from memory, but I still anticipate accuracy of over 90%)
Old 02-01-2001, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by reprise
Here at least, supplying steroids for non-approved purposes is against the law and there are especially harsh penalties for doctors involved in the inappropriate supply of steroids for non-medical use.
Sorry about your mother.

Not like Australia, in the states once a drug is approved a doctor can prescribe that drug for any purpose, even for an unapproved purpose. Quadgop the Mercatan will correct me if I am wrong, but I think I'm right.
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Old 02-01-2001, 09:10 PM
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I have to agree with Qadcop. If you were to ask me for testosterone to look more muscular, I would not prescribe it for you, and would try to dissuade you from seeking an alternate source.

As a minor quibble, almost all hormones are steroids. There are a few small exceptions to this, such as TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone). Steroids just refer to a certain ring structure with 17 or so carbons (19 in testosterone), and are the same as "hormones" in common parlance.

The drugs used for asthma do not have many systemic side effects. These side effects are seen when steroids are used to treat (for example) lupus or autoimmune blood diseases like ITP, musculoskeletal conditions, etc. and can include immune suppression, skin that tears easily (such as when putting on your socks), development of a "buffalo hump" of fat on your neck, "moon facies" (face becomes roundish), etc.

5-10% of adolescents in the US are thought to take them, 21% have obtained the drugs from a health professional! (Buckley WE et al, JAMA 260:3441-3445, 1988; Haupt HA, Clin Sports Med 8(3)561-582, 1989).

Adverse effects are hard to document given many would-be bodybuilders use 10-40 times the therapeutic dose and stack different anabolic steroids. The adverse effects encompass most of the organ systems.

(In both sexes)
Hepatic -- hepatitis, changes in liver enzyme function, bloody cysts within the liver (peliosis) and hepatocellular carcinoma

Cardiovascular -- elevation of serum LDL cholesterol and decrease of the good HDL cholesterol. Increased left ventricle mass in the heart causing heart attacks and cardiomyopathy, death from cardiac arrhytmias in healthy 20-30 year olds, swelling due to sodium retention

Psychological -- aggression, gfrank psychosis and manic-depression. These effects are usually transient. Drug dependency is possible.

Endocrine -- Overt diabetes from steroid induced insulin resistance, acne in the face and shoulder blades

Other -- baldness, nausea, dizziness, headaches, anorexia, prostate cancer and AIDS secondary to needles.

(In males)
ALSO: decreased sperm [production, impotence, decreased testicular size, changes in libido (often a decrease)

(In females)
ALSO: enlarged clitoris, decreased breast size, diminished menses, deep voice, increased hair.

Some of these side effects, such as cardiac problems and diabetes are quite serious and not worth the risk for a short term gain in muscle mass. Any health professional who gives you steroids because you want them is acting, in my view, irresponsibly and would have difficulty in front of the judge.

More information islisted in "Sports Medicine for the Primnary Care Physician", 2nd ed., Richard Birrer, 1994.
Old 02-02-2001, 04:29 AM
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Bill, we know you want to look good for reunion, but is your health really worth it?

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Old 02-02-2001, 10:51 AM
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Homer,

I know what you are saying dude but this is how I look at it.

Most the bad symptoms the good docs have give are from people with prolong or misuse of steroids. I am talking people that use steroids for years.

Anything is bad if you abuse it. Even ice cream. If you eat lots of ice cream everyday, after a while you are going to get fat and have the problems associated with that.

Look at alcohol if you drank a bottle everyday it is going to do some serious damage to you. Me on the otherhand don't like to get drunk so I drink responsibly(don't eat ice cream anymore ).

So that is where I am coming from if you do roids responsibly not very much and definetely not for very long, then I don't think they are going to produce the bad side affects as explained in other post.

So I was thinking a doctor knowing that you would probably find a way to get them anyway it would better for him supply them "legally" so at least he could monitor you for any potential problems that may or may not arise.
Old 02-02-2001, 11:17 AM
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At the risk of encouraging people, there is one very common, totally legal reason physicians will prescribe anablolic steroids for muscle enhancement:

HIV-related wasting.

It's very successful, and AFAIK it works with minimal side effects - for those who have wasting in the first place. Unfortunately, within the gay community this success has encouraged people who don't have HIV wasting to try to obtain steroids for enhancement purposes. Not a good idea. Intuitively, it makes sense to me - take a drug because you're sick, and the drug works with few side effects. Take the same drug when you're not sick, and suddenly you've got more side effects, perhaps because the drug's not really treating anything. WAG here -but it seems pretty logical that you can be "overdosing" just by taking the drug when you don't actually need it.

Do we have some biochemists out there who can shed some more light? I'm thinking about not only steroids, but opioids. My godmother, suffering chronic, debilitating pain, finds that codeine alleviates it without making her "floaty" or sleepy. I've taken codeine when my pain was not so bad, and it's Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds time.
Old 02-02-2001, 11:55 AM
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Bill:

I'm in favor of drug decriminalization, so sure, steroid shouldn't be illegal for adults to get. But no doctor is going to recommend them for you, because that would be malpractice.

Go out and take hormones if you want. Just don't expect a doctor to help you, since they can have terrible side effects. And not just heart attacks and liver failure and macho stuff like that. There's also the effects on your hormonal balance. Seriously, your testicles can shut themselves down. You wouldn't want to effectively castrate yourself just to look a little more cut?

The thing is, once you stop taking them, your hormone levels are going to drop. And not drop to your normal level, but BELOW your normal level, because your bodies hormonal regulation will be messed up. It's like if the government started handing out free cars from japan, all the domestic manufacturers are going to be put out of business.

So, you can't just take them for a few weeks, bulk up, stop taking them, and keep the bulk. It doesn't work that way. The only way to keep the muscle is to keep taking the steroid. Once you stop, your hormone levels drop below normal and you lose everything you gained.
Old 02-02-2001, 01:10 PM
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Bill, I think you are sort of hung up on the word "illegal". The way I see it, steroids are not illegal, but rather are a "controlled" substance, meaning that you can only get it if you have a note (read: prescription) from your doctor. Which is all you want anyway, I think.
Old 02-02-2001, 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by Lemur866

Quote:
So, you can't just take them for a few weeks, bulk up, stop taking them, and keep the bulk. It doesn't work that way. The only way to keep the muscle is to keep taking the steroid. Once you stop, your hormone levels drop below normal and you lose everything you gained.
Ahhh you're right. But see I have been doing some research. If you take this stuff called clomid, it takes you're testerone level back to normal faster so you can keep your gains.

By the lemur866 you seem pretty smart about this stuff. Have you tried them before? If you have in the past, any suggestions?
Old 02-02-2001, 05:55 PM
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Bill-all these people are telling you that steroids are extremely dangerous, not to mention VERY addicting, physically. Are you SURE you wanna risk it?
Your funeral, dude.
Old 02-02-2001, 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by Guinastasia
Bill-all these people are telling you that steroids are extremely dangerous, not to mention VERY addicting, physically. Are you SURE you wanna risk it?
Your funeral, dude.
Yea, but at least they will have to order an extra large casket. And I will be looking GOOD at the wake.
Old 02-02-2001, 06:07 PM
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Um, dude, no you won't. TESTICLE SHRINKAGE...wanna risk it?
Old 02-02-2001, 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by Guinastasia
Um, dude, no you won't. TESTICLE SHRINKAGE...wanna risk it?
Man, Guin what kinda of funerals do you go to? I have never seen a naked person in casket yet(not sure I'd want to)
Old 02-02-2001, 07:24 PM
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There has been more than enough information in this thread to eradicate the OP's (and others') ignorance on this subject. Thanks for that.

If the OP chooses to demonstate stupidity by going despite the knowledge, well, I guess that's his call.

But he's going to have to do it somewhere else.

This thread is closed.
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