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#51
Old 07-17-2011, 11:23 AM
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On further analysis of Einhorn's trick, I speculate that the notes had all three messages printed on them, each note being identical and looking something like this:

Message for Table 1: <say your name> will be served xyz...

Message for Table 2: <say your name> will be served abc... etc.

Note that Einhorn tells each guy which table they are sitting at, then asks them to read "your message". And the last guy to read certainly looks like he is reading from the bottom of the note.

If the above is correct, then the only part of the trick left if figuring out how the correct meal was at each table.

Last edited by KellyCriterion; 07-17-2011 at 11:26 AM.
#52
Old 07-17-2011, 11:27 AM
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And on some further and final analysis, I speculate that Einhorn had a "set" of envelopes ready for each possible iteration of the serving trays, and produced the relevant envelope set once he knew where each meal was placed.
#53
Old 07-17-2011, 11:33 AM
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So.. in summary.

Once Einhorn has the three meals placed on the tables, all he had to do was produce the "correct" set of envelopes for that particular permutation of the order of the serving trays. From that point on, it makes absolutely no difference which envelope each guy is holding, nor which table they sit at.

Last edited by KellyCriterion; 07-17-2011 at 11:33 AM.
#54
Old 07-17-2011, 12:21 PM
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In the last act it was pretty clear that the other guy signals each card with the position of the hand in his pocket. You can see he has a different number of fingers out and in different positions on every card. That only leaves the last few cards where he didn't seem to be giving any signals.

They confirmed that they didn't change the order of the cards Jonathan shuffled, switch out any cards that Jonathan shuffled, or switch in another deck. The exact wording he used seemed very carefully selected, as he was always referring to "the cards that Jonathan shuffled." So it didn't disallow adding a few of their own cards to the bottom. That's probably the clumsy move that everyone saw. If it's true, then it seems like they got through on a technicality more than anything.
#55
Old 07-17-2011, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by KellyCriterion View Post
And on some further and final analysis, I speculate that Einhorn had a "set" of envelopes ready for each possible iteration of the serving trays, and produced the relevant envelope set once he knew where each meal was placed.
But the woman sent each man to a table after they already had their envelopes, so even if he knows which meal is in which envelope, it doesn't really help him.

The audience members not reading the literal message on the envelope might be true, though it seems pretty gutsy on the part of the magician to gamble that three random people will follow the instructions. On the other hand, in the magicians little promo-video, he did mentions something had gone wrong with the trick in rehersal, so maybe thats it.
#56
Old 07-17-2011, 01:36 PM
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Watching again, you can see what P&T thought was a deck switch, when the host passes infront of the magician he switches which hand is holding the deck of cards, making it look like he put the first deck in the box and pulled out the second. But in reality, I think he just switched hands to use his right hand to put the deck back in the box (or whiie adding cards to the bottom for the final part of the trick).

Agree they must be signaling somehow, but if they were I couldn't see it. His hand is in a pretty similar position each time, and given the number of cards, he'd need a pretty lengthy set of signals to communicate with just hand position. He does say a slightly different piece of dialogue however, after he sees each card ("think of this person", "think of that person", "now this person"), so I think thats how he signals the cards.

On the last couple, he presumably added those to the bottom.

Last edited by Simplicio; 07-17-2011 at 01:38 PM.
#57
Old 07-17-2011, 02:22 PM
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I really hate when magicians say "I'm going to pick a random person from the audience.... you sir" - I mean, from that point on, even if you really are picking a random person, I always assume it's a shill. And with so many tricks, the only "magic" involves the randomness of that random person. When you throw a shill in, the trick becomes trivial or pointless.

So if the magician's really did pick people at random, I wish they'd turn around and toss a tennis ball into the audience or something to pick someone.

The meals trick of course featured just such a thing. Either everyone really was random and it was a clever trick, or they were shills and it was just a stupid act of going through the motions. Why not make it that much more impressive by showing us a real, or at least plausibly real, random selection?

Penn said they were sure that he'd actually picked someone at random, but I wonder how it is they were confident in that.

Even so, as discussed up thread, the cards could've just said [state your name], which is also lame. The thing is - there's so much social pressure on the random people at that point - are you going to be the one to stop and blow the trick in the middle of a tv recording with a huge audience looking at you, or are you just going to go through with it as you were asked? I think the vast majority of people would just be pawns in that trick, and that's also the ... dishonest sort of deception, if you know what I mean. Also lame.
#58
Old 07-17-2011, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
Penn said they were sure that he'd actually picked someone at random, but I wonder how it is they were confident in that.
I'm assuming that you're meant to trust that there are no audience plants involved in any of the tricks as part of the "ground rules" of the show (I think in one of the earlier episodes Jonathan Ross mentioned this his opening spiel, along with saying there is no camera trickery involved in what the TV audience sees etc.) and Penn was saying as much.

I do agree though that I always feel some doubt though - especially with people who seem to be very comfortable up there in front of the audience, lights, cameras, etc. (but I guess that's just projecting how nervous I'd be in that situation).
#59
Old 07-17-2011, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Simplicio View Post
I think his confederate attached it to the briefcase while he was keeping P&T busy, he touches the case when teller brings it up. Then, while the host is making a big deal out of opening the briefcase and getting the glove out, the magician kinda hides behind him and looks down for a second and shuffle his foot.

So best guess, he snags the paper off the brief case, drops it on the ground and his sole isn't attached to his shoe at the tip, so he can pick it up that way while everyone is expecting something impressive to come out of the briefcase.

I bet if Penn had brought the case up and Teller had watched, he wouldn't have "fooled them".
Hi all,

Im new here.....

Ive always loved puzzles and trying to work them out, whether its magic tricks or murder mysteries(If you have never been on a murder mystery weekend or night then i highly recommend them....they are great fun).

Without spoiling how this was done i dont think the prediction paper was on the briefcase and this isnt how he gets it.
If you go back and watch it again without thinking that way then i think you will see what i did and realise how it was done.
If you cant see it and want to know then i will let you know.......
But its definitely going back and watching it again and trying to solve it......
But im 99.9% sure it isnt on the briefcase.
#60
Old 07-17-2011, 04:55 PM
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I dunno. I rewatched it on Youtube. After the words are written, the only thing that he touches that comes from off-stage is the briefcase.

At one point he sort of awkwardly walks over to the table by the dart board, so I was thinking maybe he got it from there, but thats on stage the whole time, so I don't see how a confederate could've gotten it to the table for him to pick up (I guess the confederate could be inside the table, but that'd have to be a damn small person).
#61
Old 07-17-2011, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Simplicio View Post
I dunno. I rewatched it on Youtube. After the words are written, the only thing that he touches that comes from off-stage is the briefcase.

At one point he sort of awkwardly walks over to the table by the dart board, so I was thinking maybe he got it from there, but thats on stage the whole time, so I don't see how a confederate could've gotten it to the table for him to pick up (I guess the confederate could be inside the table, but that'd have to be a damn small person).
Hi Simplicio,

Yes you have it spot on, how you have described it is absolutely how it is done.
He gets it from the table/box and there is somebody inside that must push it up.......
I had to watch it back a second time to spot it and only did so when he told Penn & Teller that it wasnt him that wrote it.
If you watch it again, watch the bit when Penn & Teller play stone, paper, scissors....but dont watch them just keep your eye on him.
When they start to play he is standing right beside them......they both have stone at first and he does a brilliant bit of acting and it gives him the opportunity to walk away......the audience are all laughing......
As he walks away he signals to the host(Jonathan Ross) in a comical way to go over to Penn & Teller....at this point he walks over to the box and puts his hand on top of it(which is when i believe he gets the piece of paper with the predictions on).
I think he must have 2 pieces of paper(one saying 'Teller wins' and one saying 'Penn wins') and just use the one that is correct.
Penn or Teller dont see him go over to the box because they are distracted by playing stone, paper, scissors.
If you watch him when he goes over to the box he looks as if he acknowledges someone....he seems to nod his head and say something......i think he was just telling the person in the box that he has the paper.

I did wonder at first what would have happened if Penn & Teller hadnt both gone stone on the first play and how he would have been able to get over to the box without them seeing.......but i think he would have just done it when they both walked back to their chairs and turned their backs......the fact they both went stone just made it easier for him.

I also believe he did get it down his trouser leg and into his shoe......when asked by Penn & Teller all he said was he never used his pocket.

He jokes to undo his trousers(and starts to undo his belt) when Jonathan Ross gets the gloves.....and i believe that may be when he slips the paper into his trousers and allows him to get it down his leg to his shoe.

I may be completely wrong but thats how i think he did it.
#62
Old 07-17-2011, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplicio View Post
But the woman sent each man to a table after they already had their envelopes, so even if he knows which meal is in which envelope, it doesn't really help him.it.
I'm proposing that at the point where the envelopes are produced, all three envelopes contain the exact same text. It thus makes absolutely no difference who sits where holding what envelope.
#63
Old 07-17-2011, 08:00 PM
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Anyone have any thoughts about the first trick of the most recent episode, done by the French trio? How was the girl (as it seemed to me) keeping her lower body unseen while working inside the box - does it have something to do with the lamp?
#64
Old 07-17-2011, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
Anyone have any thoughts about the first trick of the most recent episode, done by the French trio? How was the girl (as it seemed to me) keeping her lower body unseen while working inside the box - does it have something to do with the lamp?
Was THAT the trick, that you never see her lower body?

I thought the "Fool Us" trick was how they were able to levitate/rotate the box?
#65
Old 07-17-2011, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by KellyCriterion View Post
Was THAT the trick, that you never see her lower body?

I thought the "Fool Us" trick was how they were able to levitate/rotate the box?
Well the way I see it, she's manipulating the box - lifting it, rotating it, poking her arms/head from within it, doing the stuff with the balls and scarves and whatnot - but you can't see her legs/lower body behind/under the box...she's barefoot and looks like a gymnast, FWIW my thinking is she's at times somehow supporting herself with her legs with the help of the lamp (though it doesn't seem to be sturdy enough) and, at one point, the body of the magician standing behind the box (Jonathan Ross comments "that's filthy" looking at Teller's sketch).

Last edited by zombywoof; 07-17-2011 at 08:27 PM.
#66
Old 07-17-2011, 10:00 PM
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That last trick with the silhouette cards ... I don't understand why P&T didn't go for the more obvious explanations, such as a marked deck (yes, the magician said it wasn't marked, but no one really checked), or some clever signaling between the magicians, or even an off-stage person signaling. It seemed that Penn was annoyed that the magicians made a move that clearly looked like deck-switching, but that was denied. IMO this trick was the most boring of all those that have fooled P&T.
#67
Old 07-17-2011, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by nivlac View Post
IMO this trick was the most boring of all those that have fooled P&T.
Agreed.

It sure looked like he did *something* with the deck when JR passed in front of him to sit down...but I suppose whatever it was, he must have been able to truthfully answer in the negative when Penn asked him about either switching the deck or deliberately making it look like he switched the deck.
#68
Old 07-24-2011, 04:15 AM
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Latest episode is up on pikespeak12's YouTube channel.

I thought the cups and balls guy was decent, but I have seen a very similar routine before, and the method for how he achieved the final reveal is fairly obvious when you watch it all back.

The "mind reader" guy had me fooled when I first watched it, but after listening to Penn and Teller give their thoughts on it, it's fairly obvious that the guy plucked from the audience was shown a list of words to choose from, with the list being concealed from the audience.

The Swedish duo were, in my opinion, a good example of magicians attempting to "game the game". Just before the final reveal, the move pulled by the magician when he puts his magic wand away looked like an absolutely flagrant card switch. There is no doubt in my mind that the move was executed as a deliberate red herring to throw Penn and Teller off the scent.

I feel this type of strategy being employed on a show like this detracts somewhat from what the "spirit" of the show is supposed to be about.

Last edited by KellyCriterion; 07-24-2011 at 04:15 AM.
#69
Old 07-24-2011, 11:55 AM
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I would have liked the Swedish guys a lot if they hadn't done the fake card switch at the end. I still thought it was a good trick, but not nearly as good as it could have been if he had just handed the card to Teller. I don't like the whole "I was doing a very complicated thing, but fooled you into thinking it was a really simple and easy trick." I agree that it's gaming the system a little bit, and it detracts from the audience enjoyment of the trick.

I found this screenshot from episode 5 on another forum. It's from the meals and letters trick. It seems it's confirmed that each card had 3 messages with fill your name here blanks. It was a fraction of a second where you can see the bottom of the card the person in table 1 is reading, but enough for a clear screencap. The wonders of HD television, huh?
#70
Old 07-24-2011, 01:02 PM
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I think there's a point where you can just make out that the mentalist has a piece of paper palmed, presumably with the word "Brick" on it, which Penn and Teller alluded to him showing the guy from the audience...I wonder if it says anything else to instruct/convince the volunteer to play along?

I enjoyed the quick change routine...even though you basically know they're wearing layers of easily removed clothes attached with velcro or something, some of the changes still seem impossibly quick.

I agree that it's pretty lame that acts like the Swedish pair can "win" by adding a deliberate fake move to what comes down to a so-so trick...the idea of seeing who can fool P&T is a great premise for a show, but I think I'd rather see them be able to award the Vegas trips to some of the acts that really impressed them, like the French trio from the last show, or the black guy who expertly does the classic card tricks (so will probably never "fool" them).
#71
Old 07-24-2011, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by KellyCriterion View Post
I thought the cups and balls guy was decent, but I have seen a very similar routine before, and the method for how he achieved the final reveal is fairly obvious when you watch it all back.
He was good, but there's no way he was going to fool P&T doing a trick they're well known for!

http://metacafe.com/watch/210013...balls_routine/
#72
Old 07-24-2011, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by KellyCriterion View Post
I thought the cups and balls guy was decent, but I have seen a very similar routine before ...

The "mind reader" guy had me fooled when I first watched it, but after listening to Penn and Teller give their thoughts on it, it's fairly obvious that the guy plucked from the audience was shown a list of words to choose from, with the list being concealed from the audience.

The Swedish duo were, in my opinion, a good example of magicians attempting to "game the game". Just before the final reveal, the move pulled by the magician when he puts his magic wand away looked like an absolutely flagrant card switch. There is no doubt in my mind that the move was executed as a deliberate red herring to throw Penn and Teller off the scent.

I feel this type of strategy being employed on a show like this detracts somewhat from what the "spirit" of the show is supposed to be about.
You nailed it. Tricks like the balls and cups and quick change don't really belong on the show unless they have really new twists. The methods are well known and there was no way that professionals like P&T wouldn't know how they're done. After all, the premise of the show is to fool P&T, not to impress them with artistry. I thought those two acts were excellent. They had great artistry and entertainment, but nothing any magic expert wouldn't figure out. Shoot, I'm just a magic fan and I knew how they were done! It seems that the producers must be having a hard time finding fool-worthy acts.

And the point about the Swedish duo was dead on. If a magician wants to "win" and make it to Las Vegas, it appears that the best way is to fake some move that looks like the secret (as Jonas Ljung faked the card switch) and then let P&T guess wrong. In their act Peter Brynolf had ample opportunity to handle the cards and somehow smuggle the marked card into his mouth. It was a good trick, but the real trick was the fake switch.

Maybe they should rename the show to P&T Fool or Amaze Us.

Last edited by nivlac; 07-24-2011 at 04:00 PM.
#73
Old 07-25-2011, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by sohvan View Post
I found this screenshot from episode 5 on another forum. It's from the meals and letters trick. It seems it's confirmed that each card had 3 messages with fill your name here blanks. It was a fraction of a second where you can see the bottom of the card the person in table 1 is reading, but enough for a clear screencap. The wonders of HD television, huh?
What's this other forum, can I ask?

EDIT: All good. Looks like this one.

Last edited by KellyCriterion; 07-25-2011 at 02:03 AM.
#74
Old 07-25-2011, 02:52 AM
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That fake card switch at the end totally got me. The second he put the tongs back in his jacket pocket I was yelling "HE SWITCHED THE CARD!!!!!!11"

It was almost too obvious. Seems kind of dickish, but I guess it was a legit fool.


Jonathan Woss kinda gets on my nerves for some reason. Probably because I don't get any of his mandatory show-opening British pop culture jokes.
#75
Old 07-31-2011, 10:11 AM
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Latest (and seemingly final) episode of the season is up on pikespeak12's YouTube channel.

Some good magic in this one. Blowed if I have much of an idea how the magicians who fooled Penn and Teller pulled their tricks off. Thoroughly enjoyed the series, I hope they do another.
#76
Old 07-31-2011, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by KellyCriterion View Post
Thoroughly enjoyed the series, I hope they do another.
Agreed...according to Wikipedia there will be a couple of more episodes airing around Christmas, at least.
#77
Old 07-31-2011, 01:34 PM
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The numbers-in-the-bowl thing was obvious from the first second, but I was not expecting Leroy McSunglasses to Mission-Impossible the crowd at the end! That was a cool bit, though I think it would have been even better if he didn't reveal his identity. Once he did that, it was obvious how the whole thing was done.

The first card guy with the deck switch to Penn's hands was amazing.
#78
Old 07-31-2011, 04:08 PM
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I thought this last episode was the best of the series. Maybe it's because P&T has revised their judging process for this last show. During the show they revealed that they've discussed at length with the producers the criteria for deciding if they were fooled by a trick. In this last show it seemed that they were more willing to give away the secret of several of the tricks. I thought they really demolished Manuel Martinez (the faux-Cuban) when they gave away his secret. I was kind of surprised that Penn said as much as he did. The last act with Chris Dugdale was entertaining, but I saw through that trick from the start when the "randomly selected" audience member acted and spoke kind of oddly during the act. And the "surprise" ending to the act clinched for me how everything was done. But I was still taken aback by how much Penn revealed about the trick. Both Martinez and Dugdale appeared to be holding back their strong displeasure at the reveals. The other two acts involving card sleights were superb. If you watch slowly you can definitely catch when the card moves were made, but still the artistry was incredible and the ultimate effects of the tricks were very impressive. Those two guys deserved their Vegas trips.

The series showcased some of the best magicians around the world that are normally not seen in the U.S. For that reason alone I hope that P&T will do a lot more of these shows.
#79
Old 07-31-2011, 11:08 PM
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Since the series is over for at least the next several months, tonight to get my fix I watched the first episode of "The Unpleasant World of Penn & Teller", a show they did for British TV way back in 1994.

While some tricks were the same or similar as those they performed on the "Fool Us" shows - the card trick where Teller "stabs" Penn through the hand with a knife (done with the exact same patter), and a trick where they retrieve guest Stephen Fry's watch from inside a fish (as they did an audience member's iPhone on an earlier "Fool Us" episode) - they did a couple of other routines that I thought were a lot of fun - worth seeking out for P&T fans.

Last edited by zombywoof; 07-31-2011 at 11:13 PM.
#80
Old 08-08-2012, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by KellyCriterion View Post
....
My WAG.. the tables could have been rigged with all three meals concealed beneath each table, and some sort of remote control device could then "load" the correct meal ....

If the cards were "fill-in-the-blank" instructions, as suggested, then the more likely scenario is something as simple as notes on the back of the serving dish lids, stating the names of the meals underneath, for the guys to insert at the appropriate place.

Last edited by theflyingtinman; 08-08-2012 at 12:37 AM.
#81
Old 08-08-2012, 01:09 AM
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Welcome to the boards, theflyingtinman. Just so you realize, this thread is a hair over a year old. The original participants may well have moved on.

Last edited by Indistinguishable; 08-08-2012 at 01:10 AM.
#82
Old 08-08-2012, 06:35 AM
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Ah, saw the thread had been bumped and was hoping for another season. But looking at wikipedia, it looks like there won't be any more episodes.
#83
Old 11-26-2012, 03:54 PM
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Penn and Teller Fool Us season 1 episode 6

Did anyone notice that the "random" guy Penn picked in the mind reader segment already had a wireless microphone on when he went up on stage? Hmmmm? This happened on another earlier episode as well.
#84
Old 11-26-2012, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mojoguate View Post
Did anyone notice that the "random" guy Penn picked in the mind reader segment already had a wireless microphone on when he went up on stage? Hmmmm? This happened on another earlier episode as well.
This wasn't a live show, so in all probability, the time spent wiring the audience member was simply edited out of the broadcast.
#85
Old 11-28-2012, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Simplicio View Post
He lets the host stick the numbers on randomly after the phones are all in the envelopes, so even if he forces which envelope the phone goes in, he can't determine the number on the "right" envelope. He does handle the dice briefly before putting it in the box though (and kind of awkwardly keeps the host from putting it in himself), so I think your right about multiple dice, he has six dice on him, and puts the correct one in after the phone is in the numbered envelope.

Still not sure how he knows which envelope has the phone though, his back is turned when it goes in, and the host shuffles them afterwards.
I read somewhere that the part of the envelope with the numbers on it was removable. I think someone said it on a YouTube video.
#86
Old 11-28-2012, 04:32 PM
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Ah, saw the thread had been bumped and was hoping for another season. But looking at wikipedia, it looks like there won't be any more episodes.
Ditto. Really I got so excited for a moment. I so loved this show. I watched every episode 2 or 3 times. Why oh why did it not get picked up for another season???
#87
Old 08-16-2014, 01:25 AM
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Smashy cell phone trick revealed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
I read somewhere that the part of the envelope with the numbers on it was removable. I think someone said it on a YouTube video.
Yes, I realize this thread is two years old but episodes of Fool Me are running on American television right now and I found this discussion thread. I figured out this trick after watching it a few dozen times. Ha ha.

Anyhoo, Penn often says that things that are important are minimized by the performer, and things they make a big deal out of are usually red herrings. (I'm trying to guide you to the answer here instead of just blurting it out.)

So during the course of the trick the host sticks numbers on the envelopes. Why bother doing that during the trick? Why not have numbered envelopes to begin with? Plus there's writing on the envelopes. Why?

The word on the envelopes has six letters, which is not a coincidence. Six envelopes. Six letters in the word. Six sides to a die. If you look closely, exactly one individual letter on each envelope has a little flourish on it. I little curl on the 'n'. A little loop on the 'o'. This makes them easily distinguishable from one another.

When the host has the envelopes filled and mentions there's one left, the performer turns around pretending like perhaps he's surprised there's one left, but what he's really doing is looking at the empty envelope and noticing which 'flourish' is on it. From then on he knows what envelope has the host's phone in it.

After the numbers are stuck on the envelopes, the performer retrieves one of six dice from under the table, with the appropriate missing number. You can briefly see him deposit the die in the box in a weird/awkward way (because he's palming the one he drops in and retaining the one the host was holding.)

Clever trick none the less, great banter, and an excellent example of how a well rehearsed trick can hide seemingly obvious information right in front of your eyes.
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