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Old 07-18-2011, 08:34 PM
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Why does Valarian smell so bad?

I've taken a lot of medications and herbal things over the years, but nothing has ever hit me the way opening a bottle of Valarian capsules does. I have to wash my hands after I take them because the stink lingers. Why is that? Why can't the capsule contain it? Why is it so foul in the first place?
Old 07-18-2011, 09:01 PM
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No idea, but golden seal is the same way. And asfoetida.

I could make the supposition that they are all rich in sulfur compounds, and sulfur really stinks badly.
Old 07-18-2011, 09:08 PM
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No clue, but every time I pop a valerian capsule, I'm reminded of studies showing that placebos are more effective if the placebo is a bit unpleasant.


Last edited by typoink; 07-18-2011 at 09:08 PM.
Old 07-19-2011, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by typoink View Post
No clue, but every time I pop a valerian capsule, I'm reminded of studies showing that placebos are more effective if the placebo is a bit unpleasant.

True, but Valerian's been shown to work in double blind studies. This study is just the first Google result.
Old 07-19-2011, 08:26 AM
ftg ftg is offline
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What I do is pour the capsules into the cap, then toss them from the cap straight into my mouth. I swish my mouth with water just before and quickly wash them down to lower the aftertaste. Never touch my hands.

They are nasty.
Old 07-19-2011, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by BigT View Post
True, but Valerian's been shown to work in double blind studies.
There's some supporting evidence for using it in insomnia, but systematic reviews have not demonstrated its effectiveness.

Goldenseal (mentioned in another post) is often included in herbal cold remedy capsules, is not only of dubious effectiveness but is also endangered in the wild; harvesting for sale is a major reason why.
Old 07-19-2011, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Jackmannii View Post
There's some supporting evidence for using it in insomnia, but systematic reviews have not demonstrated its effectiveness.

Goldenseal (mentioned in another post) is often included in herbal cold remedy capsules, is not only of dubious effectiveness but is also endangered in the wild; harvesting for sale is a major reason why.
Thank Jethro Kloss for that ... though his usual health prescription tends to be go vegan and do an immediate high enema with some herbal concoction.
Old 07-19-2011, 11:03 AM
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I haven't noticed Valerian helping specifically, but it's part of my "best effort" bedtime concoction. I take 60mg of temazepam, 10mg of melatonin, 2 Valerian capsules, and sometimes also 5 benadryls. I fall asleep a few hours later. If I don't take this, I don't fall asleep at all.
Old 07-19-2011, 11:30 AM
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Holy crap! Have you tried talk radio or CSPAN?

Making myself as comfortable as possible and plying my mind with something as boring as possible has always worked well for me. Only on rare occasions will I pop a benadryl for fear of becoming dependent on such aids every night.
Old 07-19-2011, 11:34 AM
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If I put something on that has talking in it, or even music, it keeps me awake. Plus my doctor has strictly forbidden watching TV in bed.
Old 07-19-2011, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by OpalCat View Post
I haven't noticed Valerian helping specifically, but it's part of my "best effort" bedtime concoction. I take 60mg of temazepam, 10mg of melatonin, 2 Valerian capsules, and sometimes also 5 benadryls. I fall asleep a few hours later. If I don't take this, I don't fall asleep at all.
Holy shit, that is a lot of supplements. I take 3mg of Melatonin every night and I am asleep half an hour later. If I took what you described, I'd sleep through the entire next day and get up at 11 PM. How did you get to this point?
Old 07-19-2011, 01:24 PM
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Well I've tried a bunch of different things separately without very good results (all under the supervision of a doctor) so I decided to see if combining them might work. I've only been doing this for about 2 weeks. It still takes me about 3 hours to fall asleep after all of that.

I've tried everything I've ever heard of or been told about, and have yet to find something that will knock me out that I can get in the US. There is something available in some other countries that worked well for me (Versed (Midazolam)) but it's only available as an injection while at a hospital here in the US. When I was in Brazil they gave me a Rx for tablets, and they worked like a charm.
Old 07-19-2011, 02:41 PM
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Well I've tried a bunch of different things separately without very good results (all under the supervision of a doctor) so I decided to see if combining them might work.
Is the combination being taken under the supervision of a doctor? Because that sounds really excessive.
Old 07-19-2011, 02:58 PM
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Have you tried just going for a run before bed and thoroughly tiring yourself out?
Old 07-19-2011, 04:47 PM
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I've tried everything I've ever heard of or been told about,
I'm sure you've heard of this, but it's so ridiculous you might not have actually ever tried it... Try counting sheep. Yep. Just visualize in your mind a never-ending procession of sheep jumping over a fence and count each one. Don't phone it in though, try to imagine some detail of each sheep and how it jumps by. Sooner or later your brain's subconscious will automatically kick in and decide that it's got way less boring and much more twisted shit to dream about, and off you'll be to la-la land.

I haven't had to do this in many years, but I remember being surprised that the old "counting sheep" thing actually worked so well.
Old 07-19-2011, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by voltaire View Post
I'm sure you've heard of this, but it's so ridiculous you might not have actually ever tried it... Try counting sheep. Yep. Just visualize in your mind a never-ending procession of sheep jumping over a fence and count each one. Don't phone it in though, try to imagine some detail of each sheep and how it jumps by. Sooner or later your brain's subconscious will automatically kick in and decide that it's got way less boring and much more twisted shit to dream about, and off you'll be to la-la land.

I haven't had to do this in many years, but I remember being surprised that the old "counting sheep" thing actually worked so well.
I had a serious bout of depression-related insomnia towards the end of last December. On the first few nights, I tried this.

I reached over 1,500 sheep. I now hate sheep.

Last edited by typoink; 07-19-2011 at 06:03 PM.
Old 07-19-2011, 07:16 PM
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There is something available in some other countries that worked well for me (Versed (Midazolam)) but it's only available as an injection while at a hospital here in the US. When I was in Brazil they gave me a Rx for tablets, and they worked like a charm.
Errr…not true. I’ve seen Versed tablets. And the bottle was filled by a pharmacy right here in the Land of the Free. It’s not too surprising that it would knock you right out. That’s one fuck of a powerful benzo. Remember all those scenes in ER where the cops would bring some hopped-up ne’er-do-well in on a stretcher yelling at the top of his lungs that he was kill everybody in a 100-yard radius, and the nurse would start screaming for “Versed, STAT!”? That’s what it’s for. And happy-time dental anesthesia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by typoink View Post
I now hate sheep.
Never say that to an Armenian.

Last edited by Washoe; 07-19-2011 at 07:18 PM.
Old 07-19-2011, 07:27 PM
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Never say that to an Armenian.
You'd think they'd be happy at the lack of competition...
Old 07-20-2011, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Washoe View Post
Errr…not true. I’ve seen Versed tablets. And the bottle was filled by a pharmacy right here in the Land of the Free. It’s not too surprising that it would knock you right out. That’s one fuck of a powerful benzo. Remember all those scenes in ER where the cops would bring some hopped-up ne’er-do-well in on a stretcher yelling at the top of his lungs that he was kill everybody in a 100-yard radius, and the nurse would start screaming for “Versed, STAT!”? That’s what it’s for. And happy-time dental anesthesia.
Well, it didn't knock me right out, it just worked. Like I'd be falling asleep an hour or so later.
Old 07-20-2011, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jayjay View Post
Originally Posted by typoink View Post
I now hate sheep.

Originally Posted by Washoe View Post
Never say that to an Armenian.
You'd think they'd be happy at the lack of competition...
Don't worry, there are still Scotts around
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