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#1
Old 12-13-2011, 04:42 PM
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How realistic is King of the Hill

well?
#2
Old 12-13-2011, 04:44 PM
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Not very. 10 years and hardly anybody got any older.
#3
Old 12-13-2011, 04:54 PM
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Haven't you been here long enough to know that your OP is far too vague? Seriously.

I think King of the Hill is one of the most realistic cartoon shows on TV, which is why I like it. The show is not played entirely for laughs; there are moments of genuine drama and emotion. The voice acting is first-rate; I like the fact that the core characters - Hank, Peggy and Bobby - have more or less realistic voices. I cannot watch shows like The Simpsons because of the outlandish vocal style. King of the Hill is much more tolerable to me because the main characters speak more or less like the way normal human beings talk.

The human body and facial proportions are semi-realistic, as opposed to shows like Family Guy. I like that too.
#4
Old 12-13-2011, 04:54 PM
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Most Texans aren't that animated.

Last edited by silenus; 12-13-2011 at 04:54 PM.
#5
Old 12-13-2011, 05:07 PM
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How so?

In it's depiction of Dallas suburbanites I'd say it's pretty close (I dated an absolute stunner of a girl from Dallas so spent a lot of time there. Sucked out most of my soul but totally worth it). A number of people do drink in the alley, drive trucks and obsess about football etc. Frankly though a lot of people do that in Chicago as well.

Now the various things that happen to Hank et al certainly aren't realistic but then it's a show that ran for quite some time so they had to keep inventing stories.

It's still one of my favourite shows of all time. A lot of subtle humour and genuinely interesting characters.

Last edited by Lochdale; 12-13-2011 at 05:08 PM.
#6
Old 12-13-2011, 05:10 PM
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It's as realistic as an animated comedy or sitcom of any type CAN be.

To use an analogy, it's as realistic a portrait of lower middle class Texans as "Barney Miller" was of New York policemen. That is, it's FUNNIER than real life tends to be, and often uses plausible but unlikely plots... but any Texan who watches will say, "Yeah, I know those guys."
#7
Old 12-13-2011, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by astorian View Post
It's as realistic as an animated comedy or sitcom of any type CAN be.

To use an analogy, it's as realistic a portrait of lower middle class Texans as "Barney Miller" was of New York policemen. That is, it's FUNNIER than real life tends to be, and often uses plausible but unlikely plots... but any Texan who watches will say, "Yeah, I know those guys."
[Native Garlander]Yep. Yep. DangrightIdo. Mmmhmmm[/as close to an Arlener as it gets]
#8
Old 12-13-2011, 05:29 PM
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Nobody ever had their shins shot off in Korea.
#9
Old 12-13-2011, 05:34 PM
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My first husband was a good ol' boy, and I swear I know every one of those characters from our town,even the guy you can't understand when he talks (he had a truck garden and would bring us "mushmelons" for a dollar). When the men all stand around looking at something--say, a grill or a chainsaw--and saying "Yup. Sure is." in that round-robin way...I feel like I'm looking at my former inlaws.
#10
Old 12-13-2011, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Argent Towers View Post
I think King of the Hill is one of the most realistic cartoon shows on TV, which is why I like it. The show is not played entirely for laughs; there are moments of genuine drama and emotion. The voice acting is first-rate; I like the fact that the core characters - Hank, Peggy and Bobby - have more or less realistic voices. I cannot watch shows like The Simpsons because of the outlandish vocal style. King of the Hill is much more tolerable to me because the main characters speak more or less like the way normal human beings talk.
So, would you recommend it to help foreigners to get used to to the Texan accent.
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Originally Posted by Lochdale View Post
In it's depiction of Dallas suburbanites I'd say it's pretty close (I dated an absolute stunner of a girl from Dallas so spent a lot of time there. Sucked out most of my soul but totally worth it). A number of people do drink in the alley, drive trucks and obsess about football etc. Frankly though a lot of people do that in Chicago as well.
I thought Chicagoites obsessed about basketball instead.
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Originally Posted by Lochdale View Post
Now the various things that happen to Hank et al certainly aren't realistic but then it's a show that ran for quite some time so they had to keep inventing stories.

It's still one of my favourite shows of all time. A lot of subtle humour and genuinely interesting characters.
Wouldn't it be better to say that weird stuff occurs more frequently than in reality, but each thing isn't weirder than what happens to normal folk.

Yeah, I love it too, I've seen every episode and I really like the characters.
All of them are so, how should put it? human, with all the kindness and inperfections that brings. The only characters that are throughly bad are Buck Strickland and Ted Wassanasong. I love how Hank and Kahn idolises them, when they are better suited to being each others friends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by astorian View Post
It's as realistic as an animated comedy or sitcom of any type CAN be.

To use an analogy, it's as realistic a portrait of lower middle class Texans as "Barney Miller" was of New York policemen. That is, it's FUNNIER than real life tends to be, and often uses plausible but unlikely plots... but any Texan who watches will say, "Yeah, I know those guys."
I understand.
#11
Old 12-13-2011, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by silenus View Post
Most Texans aren't that animated.
I saw what you did there.
#12
Old 12-13-2011, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Fear Itself View Post
Nobody ever had their shins shot off in Korea.
Japan I think
#13
Old 12-13-2011, 05:41 PM
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My mother grew up in East Texas and seemed to consider King of the Hill reasonably realistic by cartoon sitcom standards. She's mentioned to me that Hank Hill in some ways reminds her of her own father. (Although my grandfather wasn't a propane salesman!) I suspect many elements of the show are heavily based on things Judge observed while living in Texas, but it is a TV comedy and not a documentary.

Last edited by Lamia; 12-13-2011 at 05:42 PM.
#14
Old 12-13-2011, 05:43 PM
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Would the Army really have hung onto Bill Deautrive so long if all he did was cut hair?

Would any woman Peggy Hill's height have size 16 feet?

Would Cotton...never mind what, just would Cotton?

Last edited by Beware of Doug; 12-13-2011 at 05:44 PM.
#15
Old 12-13-2011, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Namkcalb View Post
I thought Chicagoites obsessed about basketball instead.
We've got the Cubs and Bears! The Bulls were the toast of the town in the 90s, but the biggest number of sports fans in Chicago are all about the Cubbies and Bears. Something something White Sox.
#16
Old 12-13-2011, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Argent Towers View Post
The voice acting is first-rate; I like the fact that the core characters - Hank, Peggy and Bobby - have more or less realistic voices. I cannot watch shows like The Simpsons because of the outlandish vocal style. King of the Hill is much more tolerable to me because the main characters speak more or less like the way normal human beings talk.
What? The voice actresses for Lisa and Marge use their real voices for the characters. Bart is rather animated for a ten-year old, but Homer sounds like a real person.
#17
Old 12-13-2011, 06:02 PM
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I remember hearing Judge on Fresh Air saying the characters were based on bits of different people he had met.

I miss the show. I like to imagine they're still out there, drinking in the alley. They need to bring it back to have a memorial service for Luann.
#18
Old 12-13-2011, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin_Bailey View Post
What? The voice actresses for Lisa and Marge use their real voices for the characters. Bart is rather animated for a ten-year old, but Homer sounds like a real person.
Ugh. I knew someone was going to say exactly that. It's not true. Yeah obviously those are the real voices - computer-generated voice synthesizers that sound realistic enough to use for cartoon characters are a ways off - but they don't speak the way real people speak. No, Dan Castellaneta when he is speaking does NOT sound like Homer Simpson does. Absolutely not. Listen to his voice in this interview - that does not sound like Homer. That sounds like a normal person. The characters on the Simpsons sound, for lack of a better term, "like cartoon characters."

People love The Simpsons so much that if you say anything that remotely sounds like a dig at it (which I'm not trying to do - I'm just saying that I personally don't like the style), they rush to tell you how wrong you are. I've encountered this literally my entire life, because I have never enjoyed the show, and I have also never met anyone who didn't enjoy it.

The voice acting on that show is not realistic. No way.

There are characters on King of the Hill that have Simpsons-style outlandish voices - Gribble, Bill, Boomhauer, Kahn, etc. But the core characters don't.

Last edited by Argent Towers; 12-13-2011 at 06:08 PM.
#19
Old 12-13-2011, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Argent Towers View Post
There are characters on King of the Hill that have Simpsons-style outlandish voices - Gribble, Bill, Boomhauer, Kahn, etc. But the core characters don't.
Aren't those four core characters
#20
Old 12-13-2011, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Argent Towers View Post
Ugh. I knew someone was going to say exactly that. It's not true.
I repeat. The voice actresses for Lisa and Marge use their real voices for those characters. You can stick your fingers in your ears and go la-la-la all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
#21
Old 12-13-2011, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by silenus View Post
Most Texans aren't that animated.
For the win.
I'm very lucky I wasn't drinking anything when I read that.
Nicely played.

I always enjoyed the show, they were enjoyable characters, and while I don't believe there are 'real' Dales and Bills and Boomhauers out there, I believe there are people very like them in many ways. The things that happened on the show were often pretty outlandish, but it was the most 'real' of the popular prime time animated series.
#22
Old 12-13-2011, 06:29 PM
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I spoke the other day to a Texan whose voice sounded uncannily like Dale Gribble. He wasn't quite a conspiracy nut, but he did seem like the sort of guy who'd use a sentence like, "you know they won't let a guy like me get ahead."

I've been watching King of the Hill on Netflix lately, and I'm really impressed how well the first season holds up. The show's good in general, but the first season was extremely tightly-written, deeply charming, and very human. And funny.

Last edited by typoink; 12-13-2011 at 06:30 PM.
#23
Old 12-13-2011, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin_Bailey View Post
I repeat. The voice actresses for Lisa and Marge use their real voices for those characters. You can stick your fingers in your ears and go la-la-la all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
And, while this is true, it bears mentioning that Yeardley Smith has one of the oddest speaking voices I've ever heard.
#24
Old 12-13-2011, 06:40 PM
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Marge's voice is about 120% of Julie Kavner's...she adds a small handful of gravel to it.
#25
Old 12-13-2011, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin_Bailey View Post
I repeat. The voice actresses for Lisa and Marge use their real voices for those characters. You can stick your fingers in your ears and go la-la-la all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
in the case of Yeardley Smith, not quite. She doesn't alter her voice as much as, say, Castellaneta, but when she's not in character she absolutely does not speak like Lisa Simpson:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lZK953IJn1c

I suppose, if I didn't know who she was, listening to her would make me think "she sounds a lot like Lisa Simpson;" when she's in character she raises the pitch of her voice pretty significantly.

Besides, pretty much anyone in radio, TV, or acting has their "work" voice and their "normal" voice. even talking about the people who do your local news broadcast, if you heard them talk normally they'd sound a hell of a lot different than they do when on TV.

Last edited by jz78817; 12-13-2011 at 06:51 PM.
#26
Old 12-13-2011, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astorian View Post
It's as realistic as an animated comedy or sitcom of any type CAN be.

To use an analogy, it's as realistic a portrait of lower middle class Texans as "Barney Miller" was of New York policemen. That is, it's FUNNIER than real life tends to be, and often uses plausible but unlikely plots... but any Texan who watches will say, "Yeah, I know those guys."
Yeah, the creators based the characters, settings, and situations on a lot of real life around here. There's a lot of "It's funny because it's TRUE!" in that show, from what I've watched of it. It's not something that I really, really enjoyed, mostly because I don't enjoy watching dumb people do dumb things, but yeah, I know a lot of those folks on that show.
#27
Old 12-13-2011, 07:03 PM
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It's as realistic as most sitcoms, animated or live action. I've definitely known people who remind me of the characters, especially Hank.

I do wish they'd aged them once in a while. I'd have liked to see Bobby learning to drive or getting to be college age and it would have opened up more plot avenues.
#28
Old 12-13-2011, 07:39 PM
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Well, Joseph aged a little. He reached puberty and his voice became deeper. But that's about the extent of anybody getting older.
#29
Old 12-13-2011, 07:50 PM
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They killed off at least two recurring characters-


Buckley- Luanne's boyfriend for a few episodes, died when the Megalomart exploded


Cotton Hill (died from injuries suffered on a grill at a Japanese steakhouse while having a WW2 flashback)

Any others?
#30
Old 12-13-2011, 10:18 PM
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First, I think that despite what a lot of people think, King of the Hill's "Arlen" isn't supposed to be Garland, TX. Arlen's too small-town to be a medium-sized suburb of Dallas that's well within the metropolitan area. Besides that, Heimlich County plays too large of a role relative to Arlen and the show than Dallas County would for Garland.

Hank and co. are generally an amped-up and humorous portrait of medium-small Texas townspeople, not D/FW suburbanites. Many of, the gags work if Arlen's not part of the "big city", but don't always make sense for a suburb.

I liked the show- it always made me laugh, and did definitely remind me of people I've known.


(and BTW, I live like 2 miles from the Garland/Dallas border, so I'm not unfamiliar with Garland)
#31
Old 12-13-2011, 10:25 PM
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Arlen looks like a suburb of Dallas, but the distance from various places, puts it just north of Austin. It's a mix of Round Rock, Cedar Park, Georgetown, Leander, Marble Falls, Burnet, Lampasas, and Killeen. I'd say Leander, being that it's a smaller town, but close to a big mall and The Arboretum, has interstate access pretty close by, isn't too far from Lake Buchanan, and is about 3 hours from Dallas and from Houston. The episode where the dams on the Colorado are starting to crack would put it as Marble Falls, Granite Shoals, or some place like that.

So it's pretty realistic as far as places that are mentioned, but it puts landmarks in 3 or 4 counties within a few minutes drive of each other.

Last edited by FordTaurusSHO94; 12-13-2011 at 10:27 PM.
#32
Old 12-13-2011, 11:29 PM
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The show did a pretty good job of portraying a certain breed of Texas suburbanite - politically conservative, churchgoing, pickup truck driving, with a racially diverse group of neighbors and coworkers and unexciting 9-5 jobs.

A lot of shows and movies that take place in Texas tend to play up the stereotype of the rancher, or the oilman, or the unscrupulous capitalist or all of the above (think J.R. Ewing, or the bad guy from the Muppets movie). King of the Hill was a nice departure from those kinds of depictions.

Last edited by joebuck20; 12-13-2011 at 11:31 PM.
#33
Old 12-14-2011, 12:24 AM
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As far as realism, I watched and loved KOTH before I moved to Texas from California, and I thought that Boomhauer was just a guy who spoke complete gibberish. I thought that was supposed to be the joke, that you couldn't understand him, like Kenny on South Park.

To my horror, after moving to Texas and living here now for over a decade, I find that I can understand Boomhauer, and worse, know people with accents almost as thick as his. I suppose my metamorphosis will be complete when I end up sounding like him.
#34
Old 12-14-2011, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Gray Ghost View Post
I suppose my metamorphosis will be complete when I end up sounding like him.
...or when you turn into a cockroach...
#35
Old 12-14-2011, 04:58 AM
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Yeah, dang ol cockroaches man, dang creepy crawlies, can't stand 'em, I tell ya what, need ol Dale to go nucular on their hides, knowhutImean?
#36
Old 12-14-2011, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Argent Towers View Post
Ugh. I knew someone was going to say exactly that. It's not true. Yeah obviously those are the real voices - computer-generated voice synthesizers that sound realistic enough to use for cartoon characters are a ways off - but they don't speak the way real people speak. No, Dan Castellaneta when he is speaking does NOT sound like Homer Simpson does. Absolutely not. Listen to his voice in this interview - that does not sound like Homer. That sounds like a normal person. The characters on the Simpsons sound, for lack of a better term, "like cartoon characters."

People love The Simpsons so much that if you say anything that remotely sounds like a dig at it (which I'm not trying to do - I'm just saying that I personally don't like the style), they rush to tell you how wrong you are. I've encountered this literally my entire life, because I have never enjoyed the show, and I have also never met anyone who didn't enjoy it.

The voice acting on that show is not realistic. No way.

There are characters on King of the Hill that have Simpsons-style outlandish voices - Gribble, Bill, Boomhauer, Kahn, etc. But the core characters don't.
Yes, it's about Simpson's love and not the fact that we've had this conversation before and don't agree that certain voices sound fake.
#37
Old 12-14-2011, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Namkcalb View Post
So, would you recommend it to help foreigners to get used to to the Texan accent.
There's no single Texan accent. The show actually does a fair job of showing a few of the regional variations, too. I think Mike Judge spends a fair amount of time in Austin (and in Texas, in general) so his accent for Hank is probably based on real people.

I'm probably over-generalizing but there are broadly 3 or 4 major accents across Texas with numerous minor variations on them. The accents you'll get in West Texas will be distinct from the pine woods in East Texas or the more urban accents you might get in Dallas or Houston.

The accent you hear also tends to be correlated (but not strictly) with the urban/rural divide and level of education. Well educated, city dwelling Texans tend to have accents that are closer to the rest of America, especially since many suburban Texans came from other states.
#38
Old 12-14-2011, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Argent Towers View Post
The voice acting on that show is not realistic. No way.
Realism is over-rated. If I want reality I'll open a newspaper.

ETA: Incidentally, am I the only who's never found Boomhauer hard to understand? He seems perfectly intelligble to me.

Last edited by Skald the Rhymer; 12-14-2011 at 11:06 AM. Reason: Inserted profane joke about Peggy's feet in invisible text.
#39
Old 12-14-2011, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argent Towers View Post
Ugh. I knew someone was going to say exactly that. It's not true. Yeah obviously those are the real voices - computer-generated voice synthesizers that sound realistic enough to use for cartoon characters are a ways off - but they don't speak the way real people speak. No, Dan Castellaneta when he is speaking does NOT sound like Homer Simpson does. Absolutely not. Listen to his voice in this interview - that does not sound like Homer. That sounds like a normal person. The characters on the Simpsons sound, for lack of a better term, "like cartoon characters."
You have a point, but all TV and movies, people don't talk that way in real life. Especially comedy where the scripts are half written to set people up to deliver a punchline.

Like a typical comedy one person will say something, the second person confirms it with "because of XXX," and the third person comes back with the correction and the punchline.

People don't do that in real life.

Look at "Peanuts," one of my favorite strips but little kids don't act and think that way. Schulz takes something a child may think and puts an adult spin on it and it comes out of a kid's mouth, so it's funny, because it's odd.

Also Julie "Marge" Kavner doesn't really speak that way in real life. I just bought the Rhoda DVDs and Julie and Marge's voices are close, but they are very much different. Yeardley Smith is the same. She even jokes about it on "The Simpson's" DVD commentary that she can only do one voice, though strictly speaking she's done a few others here and there. (Usually a southern accent)
#40
Old 12-14-2011, 11:20 AM
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My ex-bf used to work for a guy who sounded like a dead ringer for Boomhauer, and Peggy is a good amalgamation of the women in some branches of Mr. Horseshoe's extended family. Anyone who thinks the characters are made-up or highly exaggerated just hasn't spent enough time in enough parts of Texas.
#41
Old 12-14-2011, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Great Antibob View Post
There's no single Texan accent. The show actually does a fair job of showing a few of the regional variations, too. I think Mike Judge spends a fair amount of time in Austin (and in Texas, in general) so his accent for Hank is probably based on real people.

I'm probably over-generalizing but there are broadly 3 or 4 major accents across Texas with numerous minor variations on them. The accents you'll get in West Texas will be distinct from the pine woods in East Texas or the more urban accents you might get in Dallas or Houston.

The accent you hear also tends to be correlated (but not strictly) with the urban/rural divide and level of education. Well educated, city dwelling Texans tend to have accents that are closer to the rest of America, especially since many suburban Texans came from other states.
Yup. I can't count the number of times I have heard: "You're from Texas, but you don't have an accent."

Geez, I don't have a ranch, truck, or any cowboy attire of any sort either. Of course I haven't lived there for a long time now. Now its: You're from Ohio? I hate Ohio State.
#42
Old 12-14-2011, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by TheUthaBrutha View Post
Like a typical comedy one person will say something, the second person confirms it with "because of XXX," and the third person comes back with the correction and the punchline.

People don't do that in real life.
Unless they learned social interaction from TV.
#43
Old 12-14-2011, 01:11 PM
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Here's the interview with Judge. He talks about the characters at about 12:30 in.
#44
Old 12-14-2011, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by purplehorseshoe View Post
My ex-bf used to work for a guy who sounded like a dead ringer for Boomhauer, and Peggy is a good amalgamation of the women in some branches of Mr. Horseshoe's extended family. Anyone who thinks the characters are made-up or highly exaggerated just hasn't spent enough time in enough parts of Texas.
I've only spent two nights in Texas in my life but I've known plenty of Peggy Hills: middle aged women who simultaneously have low self esteem yet grossly overestimate their I.Q.. A disproportionate number of them will talk to you for hours if you let them about their absolutely brilliant child/ren or the novel they're going to write one day, and many, like Peggy, wind up in education. (Note to forestall flaming: this is not to say or imply that all middle aged women are like this, just a tiny minority, but there are enough to be an archetype, and for when you describe somebody as "she's a Peggy Hill" many people know exactly what you're talking about.)

Hank's a good guy, salt of the Earth (no sarcasm intended), he'd be a great neighbor and a friend you'd say 'Hello' to and maybe catch up on a couple of things when you did, but you probably wouldn't be bosom buddies with or invite to your smaller parties since

1- He's boring as hell (the Lady Propane worship)
2- You know that the only thing he finds wrong with the possibility of a Sarah Palin presidency is that she's a woman
3- While he might be too polite to mention it you know that you'd offend him with every other sentence out of your mouth

Bill is a depressing sad sack but not a bad guy. Dale is the only character on the show that I can't stand and can't figure out why any of the others remain friends with, but at least due to his cowardice he's mostly harmless and he does love his wife and, uh, his son.
#45
Old 12-14-2011, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Sampiro View Post
Dale is the only character on the show that I can't stand and can't figure out why any of the others remain friends with, but at least due to his cowardice he's mostly harmless and he does love his wife and, uh, his son.
Dale is Joseph's son in every way that counts. John Redcorn is a sperm donor who happened to have used the natural method.
#46
Old 12-14-2011, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Argent Towers View Post
King of the Hill is much more tolerable to me because the main characters speak more or less like the way normal human beings talk.
Was this joke intentional?

I think voice acting tends to be exaggerated for the same reasons as stage acting. It's harder to communicate subtle expressions and gestures in both cases, so the voice does more of the work.
#47
Old 12-14-2011, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
Dale is Joseph's son in every way that counts. John Redcorn is a sperm donor who happened to have used the natural method.
I'll give him that. And in the way Joseph regards him.

One moment I loved was when John Redcorn gave him a hunting knife. "I was given this knife by my father, who was give it by his father, who got it from his father, who got it from his father...".

Joseph: Uh... thanks... for the used knife.


Has it ever said why Nancy stays with him rather than leave him for John Redcorn? He's not rich, they don't have sex (except once or twice a year), she knows he's stupid, he's not likeable, and she cheats on him constantly with Redcorn.
#48
Old 12-14-2011, 02:53 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 27,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampiro View Post
I'll give him that. And in the way Joseph regards him.

One moment I loved was when John Redcorn gave him a hunting knife. "I was given this knife by my father, who was give it by his father, who got it from his father, who got it from his father...".

Joseph: Uh... thanks... for the used knife.


Has it ever said why Nancy stays with him rather than leave him for John Redcorn? He's not rich, they don't have sex (except once or twice a year), she knows he's stupid, he's not likeable, and she cheats on him constantly with Redcorn.
I think she stopped doing Redcorn halfway thorugh the series. Anyway, I think Nancy is one of those bigots who find having sex with persons of the despised ethnicity exciting, but refuse to countenance being in a public relationship with them.

You know, like Thomas Jefferson.
#49
Old 12-14-2011, 03:25 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer
You know, like Thomas Jefferson.
There is no conclusive proof at all that Thomas Jefferson ever shagged an American Indian guy for several years. That started out as Revolutionary Slash Fiction by tween girls in the Carolinas.
#50
Old 12-14-2011, 05:32 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Nekkid Pueblo
Posts: 20,540
One observation about Dale, was he honestly unaware that Nancy was shagging John Redcorn? Or did he somehow know in the back of his mind but was in a constant state of denial? Everybody else in the neighborhood knew about Nancy and John's affair, so how could the signs escape Dale? I know he rationalized Joseph's darker skin as due to Dale's grandmother being Jamaican. Or was he unable to think anything ill of Nancy as she did seem to genuinely love him and was a good mother to Joseph?
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