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#1
Old 06-27-2012, 03:54 PM
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Microsoft Hearts is a filthy ****ing cheater

There is no way under the sun that any normal hearts play would have the knowledge of my cards that Microsoft Hearts has. It knows just the card combination to play in order to screw me over with the damn queen of spades. Every. Freaking. Time. I give up Microsoft, you win.
#2
Old 06-27-2012, 04:04 PM
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Microsoft Spades cheats as well.

Hoyle Board Games cheats at Pachisi...there's no way that the computer players will roll a five EVERY time I'm on the one spot where I'll get smacked back into my pen.
#3
Old 06-27-2012, 04:29 PM
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My win rate in MS Hearts is about 60%.
#4
Old 06-27-2012, 05:42 PM
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I just played 3 games and finished second, third, first. I wasn't even counting. I don't think it cheats.
#5
Old 06-27-2012, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir T-Cups View Post
There is no way under the sun that any normal hearts play would have the knowledge of my cards that Microsoft Hearts has. It knows just the card combination to play in order to screw me over with the damn queen of spades. Every. Freaking. Time. I give up Microsoft, you win.
You just figured this out now?
#6
Old 06-27-2012, 05:48 PM
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Microsoft Hearts? Bah, too predictable. I only feel accomplishment if I can win without taking any points. I've had one 'perfect' game, where I shot the moon four times in a row to win 0-104-104-104.
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#7
Old 06-27-2012, 07:50 PM
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Hearts is a very difficult game to play well, so it may be true both that the software cheats and that the human can win easily.

IIRC, the human can "clock" the machine hands in Microsoft Hearts! The machine sorts its hands by suit and rank and then lets you see from where in the hand it draws each card!
#8
Old 06-27-2012, 07:57 PM
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Microsoft Hearts passing rules:

1) If you have the Queen, pass it.
2) If you have a heart that's an Ace-10, pass it.

After that, they tend to pass the Ace and King of spades, followed by any other Ace. It's really dumb strategy. I think at some point they do try to short themselves a suit, but it's rare.

It's also interesting how the computer players will never try to stop each other from shooting the moon, but as soon as they get a whiff of you trying to do it, they'll all work in tandem to stop you.
#9
Old 06-27-2012, 09:28 PM
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I concur with the OP. After many trials I noticed that if I dump my low cards trying to shoot the moon, I will often get 3 low cards back at a very high rate. When I dump 3 high cards, I rarely get 3 low cards back. Also, if my only spade is K and/or A, the computer will frequently lead the queen even when there are several low spades still to be played. The computer also frequently leads a bad card for me, like if I only have one diamond and it is high, and it has four suits to choose, it will lead a low diamond. I presume they program it to cheat like that to make it challenging where it otherwise wouldn't be.

Last edited by Mince; 06-27-2012 at 09:28 PM.
#10
Old 06-28-2012, 01:21 AM
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'Twas ever thus.
#11
Old 06-28-2012, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoopy Frood View Post
It's also interesting how the computer players will never try to stop each other from shooting the moon, but as soon as they get a whiff of you trying to do it, they'll all work in tandem to stop you.
I've never caught Hearts definitely cheating, but it does bug me that one computer player won't stop another from shooting the moon. I've never caught it deliberately taking points to stop me from doing it, either. I only ever try when I know I can make it.

Don't get me started on GNU backgammon, though.
#12
Old 06-28-2012, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer View Post
I've had one 'perfect' game, where I shot the moon four times in a row to win 0-104-104-104.
Same here. I can even pinpoint the date.
#13
Old 12-02-2013, 10:28 AM
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Hoyle Pachisi does cheat. When the game first begins, every player must roll one die to determine who goes first. And the percentages prove that you're more likely to roll a 6 than any other number. Also, the next player after you is more likely to roll a 1. And it's even trickier than that. It's more likely to bring out pieces sooner for all other players except you. The odds of you getting kicked back to your pen is extremely high and obvious. Doesn't matter where you are on the board, the program can and often does roll doubles and triples with high numbers just to get your opponents piece to your position. It also purposefully slows down or speeds up your advancement so that you are force to move other pieces before other opponents are forced to move their pieces, for example, breaking up an opponents two piece block. When you've played the real game with real players tossing real dice and then play Hoyle's Pachisi, it's beyond obvious that Holye Pachisi was programmed to cheat to win. SHAME ON YOU HOYLE!!!! You should burn in hell for this. Perhaps you should put two check boxes in your game options. One for "Honest Play" and another for "Allow Hoyle to cheat". I urge everyone never purchase a Hoyle product again until Hoyle issues a public confession and vows never to design a game that cheats. Is there anywhere in a Hoyle software game that specifically states that "Our games are designed for Honest Play"???
#14
Old 12-02-2013, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Briston View Post
Same here. I can even pinpoint the date.
I've also done that - 4th time round is tricky with the nae passing rule. XP hearts though? Think the newer versions are a bit tougher as there's obv no way one should be shooting the moon with such impugnity.
#15
Old 12-02-2013, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot Arm View Post
Don't get me started on GNU backgammon, though.
I play Backgammon NJ on my iPhone, and I believe it's based on GNU backgammon. It plays a mean game and it can feel like it's cheating, but I have no reason to believe so as I encounter similar streaks in real life games, and the program stores stats for all the games it's played, and nothing looks weird. I think it's 100% fair. It's just very good. I don't know how much backgammon you play, but it's got a lot of strategy. A good player should beat an inferior one something like 75% of the time I would say.

Last edited by pulykamell; 12-02-2013 at 06:14 PM.
#16
Old 12-02-2013, 07:55 PM
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I doubt it cheats either, but you only need two dodgy rolls to win, one to force you to leave a piece exposed, and one to nail it. If it's done at a critical time there may be no recovery.
#17
Old 12-02-2013, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
I doubt it cheats either, but you only need two dodgy rolls to win, one to force you to leave a piece exposed, and one to nail it. If it's done at a critical time there may be no recovery.
NJ doesn't cheat. It even gives you the tools to cheat it instead, if you so wish. You can take the seed value that the game is using and determine the next X dice rolls if you'd like. No matter the board positions, those are the rolls that will happen. Feel free to try it out, whether to cheat the game or just establish that it is actually using the rolls it is supposed to use.

What is does do is play pretty well, but instead of worrying about it cheating, I've used that to improve my game drastically. In fact, I now have a winning record at Expert level, all thanks to getting my ass kicked for the first few months.
#18
Old 12-02-2013, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC View Post
You can take the seed value that the game is using and determine the next X dice rolls if you'd like.
That's right. I totally forgot about that. It really is the most brilliant backgammon game I've ever encountered. Honest to a fault.
#19
Old 12-02-2013, 08:52 PM
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I'm a bridge teacher and good club standard, so I can keep track of all the cards in Hearts too.

I don't think the program cheats, since I always win.

Hearts is a tricky game, but it helps if:

- you can remember which cards have gone
- you can identify 'safe' and 'dangerous' holdings in each suit
#20
Old 07-21-2014, 06:13 AM
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You Always Win...

Sure you do.

I suppose you have learned how to defend yourself against when the holder of the QS is void in something (usually diamonds), you have the 4 and the other players have the 2 and 3.

Perhaps you have also learned to never pass the A-K spades when you know the Q is going to be passed to you because the more spades in your hand the better.

Likely you have also learned to defend against being dealt a bare QS on a hold hand, you pass it and now you have the A or K with no protectors.

I assume you have a workable defense for the times when you have the QS with 5 protectors and one of the bots has all of the other 7 spades.

And of course you have learned to recognize that just because you have AKQJ98 hearts, a couple small hearts and loads of power in other suits doesn't mean you can shoot the moon because one of the bots has 5 hearts and one of them is the 10.

And last and perhaps most-importantly I guess it's a given that you can defeat the bots when they trade cards after the passing phase.

I salute you, Sir.
#21
Old 07-25-2014, 02:54 PM
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It says something that I saw this thread and saw my name under the title, and couldn't remember posting it.

I can't decide on whether that's a bad thing (memory and all), or a good thing cuz I'm sure it's happened a lot and might be some kind of "rite of passage thing"
#22
Old 07-30-2014, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanspaceman View Post
Sure you do.

I suppose you have learned how to defend yourself against when the holder of the QS is void in something (usually diamonds), you have the 4 and the other players have the 2 and 3.

Perhaps you have also learned to never pass the A-K spades when you know the Q is going to be passed to you because the more spades in your hand the better.

Likely you have also learned to defend against being dealt a bare QS on a hold hand, you pass it and now you have the A or K with no protectors.

I assume you have a workable defense for the times when you have the QS with 5 protectors and one of the bots has all of the other 7 spades.

And of course you have learned to recognize that just because you have AKQJ98 hearts, a couple small hearts and loads of power in other suits doesn't mean you can shoot the moon because one of the bots has 5 hearts and one of them is the 10.

And last and perhaps most-importantly I guess it's a given that you can defeat the bots when they trade cards after the passing phase.

I salute you, Sir.
I'm sure "always" is an exaggeration, but I've seen people with win rates around 75% on Microsoft Hearts, which is pretty darned good. My own win rate was only around 60%, but I've never noticed evidence of cheating myself. If it cheats, it doesn't do so very well.
#23
Old 07-31-2014, 06:57 AM
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I suspect glee may have meant he always finishes in first place once someone reaches 100 points, rather than he always wins every single hand - the former is quite believable, the latter not so much for the reasons given. My own overall win rate is just above 50%, I think, but I don't take it very seriously. I did get one perfect game (as mentioned above) with a score of 0-104-104-104. Sometimes the computer appears to collaborate to stop you shooting the moon, sometimes it seems it misses an obvious opportunity to do so.
#24
Old 07-31-2014, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead Cat View Post
I suspect glee may have meant he always finishes in first place once someone reaches 100 points, rather than he always wins every single hand - the former is quite believable, the latter not so much for the reasons given. My own overall win rate is just above 50%, I think, but I don't take it very seriously. I did get one perfect game (as mentioned above) with a score of 0-104-104-104. Sometimes the computer appears to collaborate to stop you shooting the moon, sometimes it seems it misses an obvious opportunity to do so.
That's what I was assuming, too. A 100% game rate seems pretty high to me, but if that's true then Hearts really sucks at cheating. My 60% and 75% numbers were for games, not hands. Aren't the stats given for games usually at the end, not individual hands? Assuming evenly matched opponents, you should expect around a 25% game win rate. I mean, I suppose it can be bad AI and cheating, but it sure as hell sucks at it (and I've never noticed any evidence of it when I played.)

Last edited by pulykamell; 07-31-2014 at 07:33 AM.
#25
Old 08-06-2014, 06:12 PM
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I used to play Hoyle Pachisi, cribbage, and games like that, but I grew tired of the computer opponent getting miraculously lucky rolls to come back from far behind and beat me. I have no idea why they would program their games to cheat though. They like their customers to tear their hair out in frustration?

Last edited by GreenElf; 08-06-2014 at 06:16 PM.
#26
Old 08-06-2014, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenElf View Post
I used to play Hoyle Pachisi, cribbage, and games like that, but I grew tired of the computer opponent getting miraculously lucky rolls to come back from far behind and beat me. I have no idea why they would program their games to cheat though. They like their customers to tear their hair out in frustration?
They probably don't. Read the comments on a fair game of backgammon above. Backgammon NJ was accused of being a cheating game, with people complaining about "lucky rolls" and the such to the point that the programmer had to explain this was not the case and actually provided the seeds and random numbers for each game. That is to say, you can find out that the game you are playing is, say, seed 564576 and you will always generate the exact same rolls of dice. It is so honest you can even select "show next 100 rolls" and you can see what the next 100 rolls of the dice are. Yet people insisted it cheated. I think we just have selective memory.
#27
Old 08-06-2014, 07:57 PM
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Here for example is a pretty lengthy response to the backgammon cheating accusations. It's amazing the lengths this programmer had to go to to explain his game wasn't cheating. And I am completely confident it doesn't. It just plays a good game of backgammon. I don't think a well programmed game of cribbage, either, needs to cheat, but a good AI may make it feel that way, just like when I was less skilled at the game going up against better players. It felt like they always got the right cards, giant runs in the crib, etc. Sometimes, that was the case, but often it was bad play on my part.
#28
Old 08-10-2014, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer View Post
I've had one 'perfect' game, where I shot the moon four times in a row to win 0-104-104-104.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Briston View Post
Same here. I can even pinpoint the date.
I've done it once, too. Was kinda fun.
#29
Old 12-23-2014, 01:10 AM
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Microsoft Hearts was designed by a glue sniffing cheater!

It is all other players against you!
The game will show you who it intends to win by the second hand, you have to aggressively attack that player because the other players will do whatever they can to let the chosen one win. If the chosen one is going to run them they will start dumping all their stop cards if you are going to try and run them just the opposite.
I can beat the game 90% of the time because it always cheats the same way!
Also after playing the game for 40 years I get dealt bullshit hands all the time after I run them a couple of times it will deal me every high heart except one stopper and another player will hold all of the other hearts including the one stopper. It did it 3 times tonight! The chosen one is usual the one opposite you 60% of the time another improbable task! Most of the cheating comes by way of stacking the deck on every deal.
#30
Old 12-23-2014, 05:20 AM
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It will pass you high hearts, it will also play high hearts before a potential moon shot has been ruled out.

So just try and shoot the moon every hand (it will come unstuck from time to time though)

The major challenge is winning in "straight sets" or at least remaining on zero.
#31
Old 02-13-2016, 07:44 PM
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Spider solitaire repeats games.
#32
Old 02-13-2016, 07:53 PM
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I know this is a zombie, but it reminds me of when I was a kid and I first played a card game against the computer. I asked my dad "the computer obviously knows what cards I have since it's showing them to me, how does it resist the temptation to cheat?" He thought that was pretty funny.
#33
Old 02-13-2016, 09:51 PM
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Um, never mind. I already posted this several years ago.

Last edited by GreenElf; 02-13-2016 at 09:53 PM.
#34
Old 02-17-2016, 07:54 AM
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Id sure as hell cheat if I were a computer. But I'd be all sly about it.
#35
Old 03-17-2018, 01:39 PM
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Perfect Hearts Game Challenge

Shoot the moon 4 times in a row

http://imagebam.com/image/d9a339785493563
#36
Old 03-17-2018, 01:42 PM
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This thread may end up challenging the Stewart Sandwiches thread for unique bumps.
#37
Old 03-17-2018, 03:59 PM
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what is being discussed is known as the "rubber band effect" and used to be well known in console gaming

its where you would hit a certain point in the program while winning and some games would actually have an unknown to you switch in difficulty and had your butt to you .....

Take the sega genesis verson of risk ..... they had a "modern map" version and I had the computer backed up to 1 or 2 tiny central American countries ...... and it took forever to get my armies there all of a sudden out of nowhere the comp is getting ww2 sized armies and 10 turns later I was done .... turns out it had a timer that if you didn't take it out by a certain round number the computer would clean your clock .......
#38
Old 03-17-2018, 08:22 PM
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Except there is no evidence of rubber banding here. Post was even bumped to show the human player win with four shoots in a row. Lousy cheater that comouter.
#39
Old 03-18-2018, 12:19 PM
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Uhhh....photoshop?

Damn your evidence, I still say it cheats
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#40
Old 03-19-2018, 05:09 AM
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Perfect Hearts Game Challenge

Maybe. It's not a very good player.

Just checked the date on the perfect hearts screen cap: Sep 25, 2008

Haven't done it again since then. Got up to 3 moon shots a couple of weeks ago.
That 4th hand is a bitch though... can't pass any cards.

Please check out my spider solitaire challenge:
https://boards.academicpursuits.us/sdmb...&postcount=134

Last edited by daffdaemon; 03-19-2018 at 05:10 AM.
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