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#1
Old 09-18-2012, 03:32 PM
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Is "Hebe" a racial slur?

After seeing this thread: http://boards.academicpursuits.us/sdmb/...d.php?t=665837 closed because it used a "racial slur" I asked my wife and she disagreed and so do I. FWIW, we are both Jewish else I wouldn't have brought it up.

In fact, there are some people who seem reluctant to use "Jew" as though that were a racial slur too. So they use periphrastic descriptions such as "a Jewish man/woman".

The cited post was a friendly "Shana Tova" (Happy New Year) greeting and clearly not intended as anything nasty and I think that Twikster over reacted.
#2
Old 09-18-2012, 03:39 PM
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I'd put it in the "not fucking wise or classy" category at the very least.
#3
Old 09-18-2012, 03:42 PM
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I grew up in an area with a fair portion of Jews. I don't remember hearing anyone use "Hebe" there, and first remember hearing it on TV from Archie Bunker. It came across as a bit crude and impolite, but not mean and derogatory like "kike."
#4
Old 09-18-2012, 03:56 PM
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I'd never heard of it until about 5 minutes ago.
#5
Old 09-18-2012, 03:59 PM
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I was under the impression it was a racial slur. The first time I heard it used was in the film Die Hard when Ellis is talking to Hans about who he was mad at, "Maybe youíre pissed at the camel Jockeys, maybe itís the Hebes, Northern Ireland, thatís none of my business."

In context, I figured it was a racial slur at worst, at best something not used in even semi-polite company.
#6
Old 09-18-2012, 04:01 PM
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Since it seems to me to be based off of "Hebrew," I'd say it's a religious slur.
#7
Old 09-18-2012, 04:02 PM
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I don't how the term 'slur' has been applied here on the board. For instance is 'Mick' a slur for an Irish person? In this case it's been derelevanced by the mods, but maybe this thread should be in ATMB for future reference.
#8
Old 09-18-2012, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethilrist View Post
Since it seems to me to be based off of "Hebrew," I'd say it's a religious slur.
If it's based of them being Hebrew, I'd say ethnic slur. If it's based off being Jewish, and thus speaking Hebrew, I would say religious slur.

I think Mick is an ethnic slur.
#9
Old 09-18-2012, 04:09 PM
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Hebe to me is a word like fag or nigger. Ok for members of the group to use among themselves, but usually a horrid insult when coming from people from outside. I would look askance at a non-Jew who called me "hebe" unless we were really tight friends; though I've heard worse it's not at all nice.

Basically the thread struck me as not exactly offensive but, coming from a person I don't know? Presumptuous at best.

ETA: its more of an ethnic slur than a racial slur, since as far as I know "jewish" is not a "race" that our culture agrees exists.

Last edited by Hello Again; 09-18-2012 at 04:12 PM.
#10
Old 09-18-2012, 04:12 PM
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Yeah, I think it is.

I'm a white Christian girl so maybe I don't know. But I'd never say it.
#11
Old 09-18-2012, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
I don't how the term 'slur' has been applied here on the board. For instance is 'Mick' a slur for an Irish person?
Is "Mick" used in a derogatory manner.

I've never heard "Hebe" used in any manner other than derogatory. But I'm not Jewish and I haven't heard it very often.
#12
Old 09-18-2012, 04:16 PM
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Merriam Webster:

Quote:
usually offensive
: jew

Origin of HEBE

short for Hebrew
First Known Use: 1926
Urban dictionary:

Quote:
hebe
slur for a jewish person
Joe Pesci: Let's make Lethal Weapon 5.
Mel Gibson: Shut the fuck up you dumb fucking hebe.

hebe
A Racial Slur against Jews Derived From a Contraction of Hebrew.
That Christ Killen' Hebe Jewed me off Again, Damn Kike.
yourdictionary

Quote:
noun

SLANG a Jew: a vulgar term of hostility and contempt

Last edited by Colibri; 09-18-2012 at 04:17 PM.
#13
Old 09-18-2012, 04:17 PM
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Even if not a slur it's not a term that everyone can be expected to have heard before; I had to google it.
#14
Old 09-18-2012, 04:18 PM
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Since this is mainly related to a moderating decision, it's more appropriate to ATMB than IMHO.
#15
Old 09-18-2012, 04:23 PM
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Yes, it's a slur. You could call it a religious or ethnic slur instead of racial, but a slur it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Linctus View Post
Even if not a slur it's not a term that everyone can be expected to have heard before; I had to google it.
The person who used it knew what it meant, and so did the mods and many of the other people who read it.
#16
Old 09-18-2012, 04:23 PM
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You are correct, it is a religious slur or an ethnic slur -- I misspoke when I called it a racial slur.

It is, however, a slur -- I certainly have never heard it used in any other way.
#17
Old 09-18-2012, 04:24 PM
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Well, I once saw a Jewish friend of mine launch himself, fists flying, at another friend who called him a "f**kin' Hebe" in a moment of pique, so yeah, it gets used as a slur, and evokes the response you would expect.
#18
Old 09-18-2012, 04:24 PM
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In almost any other context I would think its short for hebrew, in the context relevant here it's a slur.
#19
Old 09-18-2012, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiannon8404 View Post
If it's based of them being Hebrew, I'd say ethnic slur. If it's based off being Jewish, and thus speaking Hebrew, I would say religious slur.
Okay, I'll clarify my previous... I have always heard it used to refer to people because of their religion (I don't know anybody here in the states who speaks Hebrew who isn't Jewish), so, religious slur.
#20
Old 09-18-2012, 04:30 PM
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I agree with HelloAgain - it's OK if Jews call each other hebes, but not ok for people outside the group to use.

I don't get any 'in-group' free passes. Except nerd. Feh.
#21
Old 09-18-2012, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23 View Post
Yes, it's a slur. You could call it a religious or ethnic slur instead of racial, but a slur it is.

The person who used it knew what it meant, and so did the mods and many of the other people who read it.
Seeing as this thread proves there are actual Jewish people who claim they don't think it's a slur, how, pray tell, did you determine this? I see nothing in the thread indicating that it's supposed to be an insult.

If you, say, talked to the poster via PM, told her it was a slur, and she refused to remove it, then I have no problem. But if you just banned her because she used a word you think is an insult but others clearly don't, then I say you should reconsider.

Heck, do we even know that the poster is not a Jewish person and thus exempt from it being an insult, apparently?

One thing I like about this board is that you don't make snap judgements. But, unless I don't have all the information, it sure looks like you did here.
#22
Old 09-18-2012, 04:44 PM
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According to the ATMB thread, the mods had decided to ban Cynyc even before the "Hebe" thread went up.
#23
Old 09-18-2012, 05:00 PM
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But what does the "(sp)" stand for that cynyc used after the word "Hebes"? If that mystery can be solved then we can move on to Bigfoot.

Last edited by Drunky Smurf; 09-18-2012 at 05:00 PM.
#24
Old 09-18-2012, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Seeing as this thread proves there are actual Jewish people who claim they don't think it's a slur, how, pray tell, did you determine this?
The dictionary doesn't work by popular vote, BigT. And the OP is the only person who suggested it's not a slur. Everyone else said it is a slur or that they were not personally familiar with the word. And it's not clear to me if Hari Seldon meant it's not a racial slur or that it's simply not a slur. If it's the first, I'd say he's technically correct and that it's not racial. If it's the second, see the dictionary cites posted by Colibri. And I would add that people who are uncomfortable with the word Jew probably wouldn't pick "Hebe" as their second choice. You can argue about the OP's intention, but there's no argument to be had over what the word means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
According to the ATMB thread, the mods had decided to ban Cynyc even before the "Hebe" thread went up.
I said we'd voted to ban her before her "Heil Twickster" thread. The "For the Hebes" thread was the last straw.
#25
Old 09-18-2012, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunky Smurf View Post
But what does the "(sp)" stand for that cynyc used after the word "Hebes"? If that mystery can be solved then we can move on to Bigfoot.
Sephardim. Everyone know those Ashkenzim are posers.
#26
Old 09-18-2012, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
Urban dictionary:
Quote:
Mel Gibson: Shut the fuck up you dumb fucking hebe.
Hey, if Mel uses it, it can't be derogatory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big T
Seeing as this thread proves there are actual Jewish people who claim they don't think it's a slur, how, pray tell, did you determine this?
How "actual Jewish" are they? Only card-carrying Jews may opine on this topic. Which probably excludes me, though for what it's worth I think "hebe" is derogatory, though in a rather old-fashioned and silly way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hari Seldon
In fact, there are some people who seem reluctant to use "Jew" as though that were a racial slur too.
So what's your point, Jew?
#27
Old 09-18-2012, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunky Smurf View Post
But what does the "(sp)" stand for that cynyc used after the word "Hebes"? If that mystery can be solved then we can move on to Bigfoot.
Spic? As in Hispanic? Happy New Year Hispanic Jews?

Or maybe (spelling?) As in, I hope I speeled heebs corektlee.


Now, BIGFOOT is Jewish!? Holy Flurking Schnit!

Last edited by SiXSwordS; 09-18-2012 at 05:08 PM.
#28
Old 09-18-2012, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunky Smurf View Post
But what does the "(sp)" stand for that cynyc used after the word "Hebes"? If that mystery can be solved then we can move on to Bigfoot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiXSwordS View Post
Spic? As in Hispanic? Happy New Year Hispanic Jews?

Or maybe (spelling?) As in, I hope I speeled heebs corektlee.


Now, BIGFOOT is Jewish!? Holy Flurking Schnit!
Spelling. She wasn't sure how to spell it. SixSwords got it in two.

Last edited by samclem; 09-18-2012 at 06:54 PM.
#29
Old 09-18-2012, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Seeing as this thread proves there are actual Jewish people who claim they don't think it's a slur, how, pray tell, did you determine this? I see nothing in the thread indicating that it's supposed to be an insult.
Of course it's a slur. Just because one person doesn't think it is doesn't mean it isn't. I mean if there's a random black person who for some reason thinks "nigger" isn't a slur, that doesn't mean it's not.
#30
Old 09-18-2012, 07:27 PM
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Yes its a slur, but I always thought it was spelled heeb.
#31
Old 09-18-2012, 07:53 PM
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Be a bummer of a first name (e.g. Hebe de Bonafini).
#32
Old 09-18-2012, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethilrist View Post
Since it seems to me to be based off of "Hebrew," I'd say it's a religious slur.
I'm Jewish and it's always been a slur to me. It's never used nicely.
#33
Old 09-18-2012, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Seeing as this thread proves there are actual Jewish people who claim they don't think it's a slur, how, pray tell, did you determine this?
It's extremely simple. Consult a dictionary, like the links I posted above. The word is unquestionably a slur and usually used insultingly.

Quote:
Heck, do we even know that the poster is not a Jewish person and thus exempt from it being an insult, apparently?
While it's possible that one Jewish person might use it to friend in a jocular fashion (although I have never heard any of my Jewish friends use it themselves in any way), cynyc posted it to the board as a whole. This was not some private joke between close friends. Most of our members are non-Jewish, and even if a few Jews like the OP don't find it offensive others might. Even if it were intended as a joke, it showed extremely poor judgement.

Quote:
But, unless I don't have all the information, it sure looks like you did here.
BigT, you can assume you never have all the information.

Last edited by Colibri; 09-18-2012 at 09:15 PM.
#34
Old 09-18-2012, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hello Again View Post
Hebe to me is a word like fag or nigger. Ok for members of the group to use among themselves, but usually a horrid insult when coming from people from outside. I would look askance at a non-Jew who called me "hebe" unless we were really tight friends; though I've heard worse it's not at all nice.

Basically the thread struck me as not exactly offensive but, coming from a person I don't know? Presumptuous at best.

ETA: its more of an ethnic slur than a racial slur, since as far as I know "jewish" is not a "race" that our culture agrees exists.
Unlike the other two words though, I've never heard a Jewish person use it affectionately or make any attempt at "reclaiming" it.

In fact, I've never heard it used as anything but a slur.

Moreover, it's the context a word is used in that counts.

"Jew" is certainly not normally considered a slur, but I can guarantee you that were I to say to another poster "Fuck you, Jew!" the mods would take pretty swift action and would not treat that phrase any differently than "Fuck you, Kike!"(apologies to Marley, using the term to make point not to piss people off).
#35
Old 09-18-2012, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferret Herder View Post
I'd put it in the "not fucking wise or classy" category at the very least.
Yes, this, thank you. Plus the thread was started by an uber-troll who was uber-trolling again. Do we need to discuss every banning, or the dumb thread(s) leading up to it, ever? If you'd like to pretend this is a "When it's okay to use certain sluts thread," stop pretending now, because it's an old discussion that's been had before. Dude was trolling, was banned, huzzah.
#36
Old 09-18-2012, 10:19 PM
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As its been pointed out, it fits the definition of a slur. However, I can't imagine being upset by being someone using it against me.

Last edited by RetroVertigo; 09-18-2012 at 10:20 PM. Reason: Removing an errant quote.
#37
Old 09-18-2012, 10:43 PM
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Whoa, whoa... It's always okay to use sluts, but I meant when it's okay to use slurs* in case anyone is wondering.
#38
Old 09-18-2012, 11:08 PM
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What about Heeb? Heeb: The New Jew Review
#39
Old 09-18-2012, 11:29 PM
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I'm getting the heebie-jeebies.
#40
Old 09-19-2012, 12:27 AM
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Mods, I have another and different issue to pick about this (and other) banishments, not revolving around the actual merits or the banning itself, but regarding the habit of issuing a warning and then banning without further notice.

I've started a separate ATMB thread with this question, here:
http://boards.academicpursuits.us/sdmb/...d.php?t=665949
#41
Old 09-19-2012, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanOldLady View Post
Yes, this, thank you. Plus the thread was started by an uber-troll who was uber-trolling again. Do we need to discuss every banning, or the dumb thread(s) leading up to it, ever? If you'd like to pretend this is a "When it's okay to use certain sluts thread," stop pretending now, because it's an old discussion that's been had before. Dude was trolling, was banned, huzzah.
I'm just intrigued because last time we had this discussion a lot of people spent a lot of time typing out how something isn't a slur if a member of the group in question says it isn't but this time the response is universal that it's a slur. Did all those posters from the earlier thread take a 24 hour lunch or what?
#42
Old 09-19-2012, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Seeing as this thread proves there are actual Jewish people who claim they don't think it's a slur, how, pray tell, did you determine this?
I saw no poster prior to your post who claimed to be Jewish and also claimed that they did not consider it a slur. What prompted you to make this claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner Stickler View Post
I'm just intrigued because last time we had this discussion a lot of people spent a lot of time typing out how something isn't a slur if a member of the group in question says it isn't but this time the response is universal that it's a slur. Did all those posters from the earlier thread take a 24 hour lunch or what?
Aside from the satiric e-zine reference, (in which the term is used ironically--thus relying on the fact that it is a slur to make their point), what Jews do you find saying it is not a slur?

Last edited by tomndebb; 09-19-2012 at 02:20 AM.
#43
Old 09-19-2012, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner Stickler View Post
I'm just intrigued because last time we had this discussion a lot of people spent a lot of time typing out how something isn't a slur if a member of the group in question says it isn't but this time the response is universal that it's a slur. Did all those posters from the earlier thread take a 24 hour lunch or what?
Not an unworthy conversation, and one I've engaged in at least twice on this board, but this thread seems to be framing it around whether or not cync did anything inherently wrong using offensive language by telling the Hebes/Heebs "O hai!" My response is dude, whatever. If you want to ask when ethnic slurs are appropriate, please don't create it in this context, asking if what she did was so terrible, because in this case, the word in question was definitely a slur, as it came from a super troll. If you want to have the slur discussion, have it, but don't be like "Why was this thread closed? When is it okay to use slurs here?" It's definitely not okay when coming from posters like her.

And, fwiw, the 'r' and 't' being so close together on the keyboard isn't ordinarily a problem, but it sure as shit as making the word 'slur' difficult to type for me.
#44
Old 09-19-2012, 03:31 AM
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I always thought Hebe was a pretty good-looking Chinese singer (image search it). Good thing nobody asked me if I like Hebe.
#45
Old 09-19-2012, 09:57 AM
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Hebe (pronounced with two syllables) is also the Greek goddess of youth.

Referring to her would be unlikely to result in getting a warning. (Reconsiders: Do I really want to throw down that gauntlet? Oh, what the hell.)
#46
Old 09-19-2012, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Ibn Warraq View Post
Unlike the other two words though, I've never heard a Jewish person use it affectionately or make any attempt at "reclaiming" it.
I have, and I was actually thinking of Heeb magazine as well, which someone already mentioned (and which had a print edition until a couple years ago).

Last edited by Hello Again; 09-19-2012 at 10:22 AM.
#47
Old 09-19-2012, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MeanOldLady View Post
Whoa, whoa... It's always okay to use sluts...
Oh thank god. I got really sad for a minute there.
#48
Old 09-19-2012, 12:33 PM
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Nothing to new to add, but will re-emphasize (and, trust me, I'm Jewish) that 'Hebe' is not unlike the 'n-word'. That is, yes, it is used among members of the tribe but when spoken by a non-Jew it's almost always considered derogatory at best.
#49
Old 09-19-2012, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary T View Post
I grew up in an area with a fair portion of Jews. I don't remember hearing anyone use "Hebe" there, and first remember hearing it on TV from Archie Bunker. It came across as a bit crude and impolite, but not mean and derogatory like "kike."
I came in to mention the Archie Bunker references. IMO, it was a slur, though he respected the professionalism of his attorneys -- "... Rabinowitz, Rabinowitz, Rabinowitz, and Sons, seven savage Jews that'll pick your bones clean."
#50
Old 09-19-2012, 04:16 PM
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I (and my wife) obviously are hold a minority view on this. ("Racial", "Religious", "Ethnic" it's all the same to me. In 44 years in Quebec I have gotten used to everyone mixing up those words all the time.) Perhaps, as one poster suggested, it is something that Jews can freely use among themselves that outsiders cannot. Still there are real slurs, e.g. the k-word, that I would never, ever use. Anyway, I asked a question and it is answered so I wouldn't mind seeing this closed.
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