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#1
Old 08-22-2013, 09:52 AM
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Men, check in if you've ever been groped unwillingly

by a woman.

by a man.

A boy/classmate who bullied me around for laughs when I was 13 grabbed my testicles through my pants and hung on real tight for half a minute in front of an entire line of boys waiting to enter into the wood shop. I was terrified never mind embarrassed.

Never by a woman although it would be difficult for me to believe I could be upset by it
#2
Old 08-22-2013, 09:57 AM
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No, damn it.
#3
Old 08-22-2013, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Flying Dutchman View Post

Never by a woman although it would be difficult for me to believe I could be upset by it
Seriously? Imagine a woman so grotesque you wouldn't want to touch her with someone else's hands, and then imagine her trapping you and fondling your genitals without your permission. Are you saying that would be a neutral experience and you'd be able to blithely go about your day as if it hadn't happened?
#4
Old 08-22-2013, 10:25 AM
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Doesn't every boy at some point go through what the OP describes? It's a rite of passage in middle school, except for a few alpha bullies who probably get it from adults.

In 8th grade (yep - wood shop) I had my head forced between a guys legs as he jumped up and down and made jokes about me sucking him off. It was a hoot for the whole class. A guy used to show me his dick in the cafeteria - the teachers told him to stop it when they noticed.

Fortunately, by high school I'd figured out how to put up a little fight so I just ignored it as the smaller guys took the towel snapping, and being stuffed into lockers or taped or worse. Most of us learned how to get out of taking a shower after gym by like the 9th grade. Naked and wet in a room with psychopaths - no thanks coach.

Isn't this universal for guys? I'd always assumed it was intentional on the part of gym teachers, to make us men or to at least teach us to avoid psychopaths.

I've been groped by a few women who I'd rather wouldn't have. It wasn't so bad. The difference I think is that I didn't feel physically threatened in those situations.

Last edited by shiftless; 08-22-2013 at 10:28 AM.
#5
Old 08-22-2013, 10:32 AM
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Yup, when I was in college. A gay man was flirting with me rather aggressively, "accidentally" dropped something in my lap and groped around to "find" it. I was mostly flattered and bemused by the experience. Probably helps that I was with my girlfriend and other friends who told him to knock it off, and we all laughed a little about it and moved on.
#6
Old 08-22-2013, 10:34 AM
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TTBOMK No woman or man has ever evinced the slightest hint of lust for me.
#7
Old 08-22-2013, 10:34 AM
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I had a creepy weird old lady try to molest me when I was 5 or 6. You really missed out on something astorian.
#8
Old 08-22-2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiftless View Post
Doesn't every boy at some point go through what the OP describes? It's a rite of passage in middle school, except for a few alpha bullies who probably get it from adults.
I never experienced anything like that.

To Gallows Fodder, it wouldn't throw me off as I expect it would a woman. I wouldn't enjoy being groped, but I doubt it would bug me for more than a few minutes. I could go blithely about my day.
#9
Old 08-22-2013, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gallows fodder View Post
Seriously? Imagine a woman so grotesque you wouldn't want to touch her with someone else's hands, and then imagine her trapping you and fondling your genitals without your permission. Are you saying that would be a neutral experience and you'd be able to blithely go about your day as if it hadn't happened?
Well old fat ugly bitchy and annoying lady from work has been patting my ass since I was 17 and its never even occurred to me to be bothered by it. It was only recently that it even clicked it was sexual harrasment. A neutral experience that i completely ignore and go about my day as it had never happened is the perfect description for it.
#10
Old 08-22-2013, 10:39 AM
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By drunk adults (my age) and sober bullies (when I was a kid), yes.
#11
Old 08-22-2013, 10:57 AM
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Been groped by women I've had no interest in.

Not traumatic, but have had a few get unpleasant and start in with loud," What are you, too good for me or gay?" type comments once I disengaged the hands.

Would rate being unwillingly groped ahead of getting kicked or punched in the fork on my list of personal preferences.
#12
Old 08-22-2013, 11:25 AM
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Twice by nice looking women in clubs, I enjoyed it both times.
#13
Old 08-22-2013, 11:28 AM
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I've encountered some overly aggressive women. I was frankly surprised by the amount of hostility when they got turned down.
#14
Old 08-22-2013, 11:28 AM
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Well, I had my bottom pinched by a woman once. She was actually rather attractive. We had had no previous interaction. It occurred to me quite recently, when the memory of the incident happened to come to mind for some reason, that it may actually have been meant as a come-on. I can't think why she might have done it otherwise. Unfortunately, I have only realized this about forty years too late.

Another time a woman sat herself on my lap uninvited. This was not entirely out of the blue - she had clearly been trying to chat me up for some time - but it was unexpected, and I was not much interested in her. It did not lead anywhere, although that had as much to do with my shyness and awkwardness as with my lack of attraction to her. (I didn't find her positively attractive, either physically or otherwise, but she was not repulsive. I have since often regretted not taking advantage of the situation for some casual sex, which I certainly wasn't getting much of in those days.)

Also, once, in a pub, a prostitute rubbed her knee across my crotch in order to, er, attract my attention (as in the first case, there was no previous interaction and I think I had scarcely noticed her presence before this, and certainly had not realized she was a hooker - she wasn't dressed in the stereotypical way). In this case it worked, and I ended up having some very unsatisfactory sex for money. (I am quite confident the women mentioned in the previous two paragraphs were not prostitutes.)

I have had gay men try to pick me up on a small handful of occasions (when I was much younger), but I do not recall any of them physically groping me.

Last edited by njtt; 08-22-2013 at 11:32 AM.
#15
Old 08-22-2013, 11:31 AM
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Only twice for me and both times were during high school when a bunch of girls were trying to settle bets. The first time, the bet was whether my pecs were muscle or fat, and the second time, it was trying to figure out the size of my package. Both times, one of them ran up, copped a feel and then ran back to report before I could even figure out how to respond. It was a little odd, but not particularly disturbing. I heard that they were impressed with the results... so I tend to think back on it as an ego-booster.

Never been groped by males of any age.
#16
Old 08-22-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalC View Post
Well old fat ugly bitchy and annoying lady from work has been patting my ass since I was 17 and its never even occurred to me to be bothered by it. It was only recently that it even clicked it was sexual harrasment. A neutral experience that i completely ignore and go about my day as it had never happened is the perfect description for it.
I think the key difference here that's making it hard for, say, female Dopers to understand the disconnect between posts like this and their experience is. . . well, in what you describe there, you were mildly annoyed, but not actually afraid. It doesn't sound like you ever felt at risk for being violently raped, assaulted, or physically intimidated by these women, so it was less disconcerting.

Surely, I definitely don't label all gropings as the same. The ones from random, slighter built dudes copping a feel of my ass as I walk by barely even register, whereas the ones where the guy has a foot and 50 pounds on me, all while cornering me or something. . . those are way more traumatizing.

I guess my point is: in general, I suspect female on male groping is less traumatizing for the victim because there is less of that whole power imbalance. Now, there are definitely physically or psychologically intimidating women, so please don't think I'm saying it never happens. Rather, I'm just sort of babbling about the thoughts floating around in my head right now .

Now, I do suspect the school bullying described upthread is more in line with the experience of the average woman, since you are physically intimidated and potentially worried about your life.
#17
Old 08-22-2013, 11:34 AM
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Yeah both men and women have groped me. Always in a bar setting.

Last edited by Living Well Is Best Revenge; 08-22-2013 at 11:34 AM.
#18
Old 08-22-2013, 11:37 AM
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A (female) friend of mine grabbed my crotch once at a party. It was (and still seems) really odd. We're at my house, in my basement, bunch of friends there. She's married. I'm married. Both of our spouses are there.

Out of nowhere she just reaches down and grabs my crotch and says, "nice package." I don't think anyone else saw it and I've never mentioned it to anyone - not for any particular reason.

What threw me was it seemed so out of character for her. I'd known her for years and had never seen or heard of this type of behavior from her. It was just really strange.

I didn't say anything in response that I can recall. And she just walked away.
#19
Old 08-22-2013, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguyjeff View Post

Out of nowhere she just reaches down and grabs my crotch and says, "nice package." I don't think anyone else saw it and I've never mentioned it to anyone - not for any particular reason.

What threw me was it seemed so out of character for her. I'd known her for years and had never seen or heard of this type of behavior from her. It was just really strange.
My guess is she was seeing if there was any interest in a foursome.
#20
Old 08-22-2013, 11:56 AM
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Woman here.

I once stroked the hair of a young man I had a crush on. (I was 35, he 28. We were out with a mutual friend. I was drunk, but not *that* drunk.

He did not seem to like it, but he also did not seem to mind it very much. He liked me, but not *that* way, apparently.
#21
Old 08-22-2013, 12:00 PM
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Several times by young, male bullies. Not so bad, as I've never had a problem standing up for myself against bullies, and the crowd tends to support you when you do.

A couple times by gay, flirty men. Both times I was very surprised, and really by the time it processed in my mind what just happened I was past the point where I might have been hurt or offended.

Once by a very attractive woman in a club, which pleasantly surprised me, until she ran back to her friends and they laughed and laughed at my reaction. It was a dare and a joke at my expense, and I felt humiliated. I left shortly after.

Twice at different parties (at the same house, coincidentally) by women who had neither the looks nor the personality to be attractive to me. Both were rather persistent, and I felt miserable and trapped. Various people at the party were encouraging the girls and offering me high fives, and I knew that if I resisted verbally I'd be the butt of all the jokes at the party. Resisting physically was right out, as I was at this point an adult and a very non-violent one, and besides that I'd risk getting my ass kicked by half the guys at the party and/or getting arrested. In one instance I had been driven there by friends, and in both I had had too much to drink to drive myself, so I pretty much had to settle for being stuck on the wrong end of the social contract.
#22
Old 08-22-2013, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiosaBellissima View Post
I think the key difference here that's making it hard for, say, female Dopers to understand the disconnect between posts like this and their experience is. . . well, in what you describe there, you were mildly annoyed, but not actually afraid. It doesn't sound like you ever felt at risk for being violently raped, assaulted, or physically intimidated by these women, so it was less disconcerting.

Surely, I definitely don't label all gropings as the same. The ones from random, slighter built dudes copping a feel of my ass as I walk by barely even register, whereas the ones where the guy has a foot and 50 pounds on me, all while cornering me or something. . . those are way more traumatizing.

I guess my point is: in general, I suspect female on male groping is less traumatizing for the victim because there is less of that whole power imbalance. Now, there are definitely physically or psychologically intimidating women, so please don't think I'm saying it never happens. Rather, I'm just sort of babbling about the thoughts floating around in my head right now .

Now, I do suspect the school bullying described upthread is more in line with the experience of the average woman, since you are physically intimidated and potentially worried about your life.
Absolutely.

I think another part of is is that there is a general sense of entitlement floating around in our culture, that women are not human beings with lives of their own but are here for men's pleasure, and some men cannot grasp the concept that they are not entitled to comment on and touch women without permission. So when you as a woman run up against an asshole who believes that shit, it's jarring because not only have you been touched without your permission but you have to deal with the fact that someone saw fit to treat you like you (your opinion, your will, your feelings) don't matter and that society brofists him for it and scorns you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanity Challenged
Twice at different parties (at the same house, coincidentally) by women who had neither the looks nor the personality to be attractive to me. Both were rather persistent, and I felt miserable and trapped. Various people at the party were encouraging the girls and offering me high fives, and I knew that if I resisted verbally I'd be the butt of all the jokes at the party. Resisting physically was right out, as I was at this point an adult and a very non-violent one, and besides that I'd risk getting my ass kicked by half the guys at the party and/or getting arrested. In one instance I had been driven there by friends, and in both I had had too much to drink to drive myself, so I pretty much had to settle for being stuck on the wrong end of the social contract.
Man, I'm sorry you went through that. It fucking sucks, doesn't it, that feeling of being trapped and having no recourse. It sucks that men are pressured into keeping silent when they're touched unwillingly because god forbid they violate the man rule that says they have to be up for sex any time any place with anyone.

I have never understood why we don't as a culture make a point in teaching children to respect others' bodily autonomy the same we we uniformly teach them to share their toys and not hit each other from a very early age.

Last edited by gallows fodder; 08-22-2013 at 12:26 PM.
#23
Old 08-22-2013, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
some men cannot grasp the concept that they are not entitled to comment on... women without permission.
I'm not entitled to COMMENT ON women? What are you talking about?
I can comment on anybody I want to comment on. Don't like it? Feel free to comment back.
#24
Old 08-22-2013, 12:33 PM
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When I was 16 I went to Disney World with my family and my cousin's family. Cousin and I were in a gift shop and these two Brazilian teenagers came up to us and said, "You are Americans? Can we take a picture with you?"

We said sure and my cousin and I got in the middle and each girl set up on either side of us. As the picture was being taken, one of the girls grabbed my ass. To this day I'm not sure if she was trying to steal my wallet or if she was being legitimately cheeky (her tour group leader ran into the store and shooed them out a minute later because they had a plane to catch right then).
#25
Old 08-22-2013, 12:44 PM
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I was groped/molested by a grown man when I was about nine or ten years old. This may be the first time I've ever made that info public.

I've had women sit on my lap at parties a couple of times----I never thought they were hitting on me, though-----it was just good clean drunken fun.
#26
Old 08-22-2013, 12:49 PM
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Yep, just recently by a Middle Aged woman on the subway. I thought it was accidental but she just kept going and the movements were pretty specific. I ignored it but I was surprised by how uncomfortable it made me. Incidentally, I'm 36.
#27
Old 08-22-2013, 12:50 PM
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Yes, by both.

Had an elderly gay dude grab me by my junk when I was out for an exercise walk. I was sorta flattered.

When I was running on an ambulance crew, getting groped was a fact of life. Almost always women, and 100% were either drunk, stoned, in withdrawal, or a combination thereof. I was known to lament that I couldn't be groped by a stone sober hottie.
#28
Old 08-22-2013, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by aNewLeaf View Post
I'm not entitled to COMMENT ON women? What are you talking about?
I can comment on anybody I want to comment on. Don't like it? Feel free to comment back.
I'm talking about catcalls.
#29
Old 08-22-2013, 02:00 PM
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Well, dunno if this counts, but: yeah, by a stripper in a club. What happened was, it was my bachelor party, at a place in Las Vegas called "Olympic Gardens." Ground floor is full of female strippers, for the guys; the second floor is for the womenfolk and occupied by male strippers. My wife-to-be and I were on the two different floors at the same time.

So her sister's husband buys me a lapdance, and I won't say she was the ugliest stripper in the place, because frankly I don't remember what she looked like at all. What I do remember about her, though, is her hands. I have never received such an aggressive lapdance in my life. Throughout the song she was constantly grabbing and working my package through my jeans, with hands so rough and callused that she must have worked days as a carpenter. Those hands were absolutely a turn-off, and yet physical stimulation will take its toll; it's the only time I ever got an erection against my will. I sat there and took my unwelcome groping, because how do you tell a stripper "NO MEANS NO!" and run away? And yeah, the whole thing felt pretty violating.
#30
Old 08-22-2013, 02:48 PM
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Yes, by gay men and by women.

Setting aside the times at parties where there was uninvited drunken groping and tongues shoved down the throat...:

Gay buddy had a bad BAD crush on me, he pinned me down and shoved his hand down my pants. Uh...no thanks.

Night shift at a restaurant - I was cleaning the women's restroom, I had the sign out and the door open, a couple of drunk ladies came in and tried to play with me. - Yeah, I know, it sounds like the start of a Penthouse Forum letter, but I wasn't having any of it.

Boss lady at work - I was bent over the file drawer, she ran her hands up and down my back. I ignored it. It was really not like her at all, she was normally tres professional at all times.
#31
Old 08-22-2013, 04:14 PM
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In highschool there were a couple of girls who would follow me around and pinch my butt whenever they could. It never occurred to me to be bothered, I just thought they were idiots.
#32
Old 08-22-2013, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoid View Post
I've encountered some overly aggressive women. I was frankly surprised by the amount of hostility when they got turned down.
The expectation is pretty much the same from men and women on male groping - "Hey, who's complaining? Heh heh heh." Women see a lot less rejection or negative reaction than men, and so don't handle it as well, in my experience. I had a couple of incidents with female classmates in high school grabbing my ass in public. One (who I actually liked) stopped after being told politely not to do that, but it had a chilling effect - we didn't date until college. The other did it again, and I explained firmly that I didn't approve and wasn't kidding about her stopping. When she tried a 3rd time, I caught her hand and squeezed it until her eyes watered; she left me alone after that.
#33
Old 08-22-2013, 04:28 PM
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Yep!
I've had my ass 'grabbed' a couple of times, by men and women.
Some of the incidents were more of a 'pat on the cheek', other times it was an outright, 'grab a handful and squeeze'.
Truth be told, I always took it as a 'compliment'! (Even the couple of different times when it was a guy that did the grabbing/patting.)
The times when a guy did it, I didn't 'make a scene', but I did let him know that I didn't think that it was a very polite thing to do. And he apologized.
(A little background on that... I was at the gay bar where my brother was bartending, waiting for him to finish his shift and give him a ride home. The place was a notorious 'cruise' bar, a fact that I was well aware of, so I kind of feel like I 'put myself at risk', just being there. Which was why I didn't 'make a scene'.)

When it was a woman doing the grabbing/patting...

Well, lets just say that 'good times were had by all', as the evening progressed.

Ahhh... those were the 'good old days'.
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Last edited by JBDivmstr; 08-22-2013 at 04:30 PM.
#34
Old 08-22-2013, 04:33 PM
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Not actually groped, but a lingering slide across my ass twice in one bar, didn't see who did it though. Got my ass grabbed by a woman acquaintance who I would never have suspected of grabbing me, I am not her type, but she was loaded. Plus, I was "ass-rubbed" dancing on the dance floor by a tall goddess. I was there first, so I know it wasn't me who committed the "ass-ault" but I didn't move away right away either. This has all happened in the last year or so. Before that, nada.
#35
Old 08-22-2013, 05:59 PM
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marching in a Mardi Gras parade as part of a military unit. I was in the the front rank. While we were at a halt I could see two girls talking and pointing. Just before we started off again one of the girls reached out and squeezed my crotch. Didn't really bother me, eighteen years old and all that.
#36
Old 08-22-2013, 06:05 PM
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Step dad.
#37
Old 08-22-2013, 06:23 PM
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Groped sexually? Nope. In a fight in the 6th grade, the other kid went for my testicles. I kidney-punched him until he went flat, then knee-dropped him.
#38
Old 08-22-2013, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gallows fodder View Post
... some men cannot grasp the concept that they are not entitled to comment on and touch women without permission. So when you as a woman run up against an asshole who believes that shit, it's jarring because not only have you been touched without your permission but you have to deal with the fact that someone saw fit to treat you like you (your opinion, your will, your feelings) don't matter ...
...
Perfectly understandable to me, and to most others, IMHO.
(Though, not to everyone, apparently.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aNewLeaf View Post
I'm not entitled to COMMENT ON women? What are you talking about?
I can comment on anybody I want to comment on. Don't like it? Feel free to comment back.
(bolding mine)
Yes, you most certainly can. It's not just 'commenting' on someone though, it's the comment, that is made. (See post, below.)
Make the wrong type of comment, to the wrong person, and you could very well wake up wondering if anybody got the license plate number of the 'truck' that just 'cleaned your clock', so to speak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallows fodder View Post
I'm talking about catcalls.
#39
Old 08-22-2013, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by aNewLeaf View Post
Step dad.
Now, that's a serious 'bummer'!

It doesn't give you the right to make unwanted, rude and/or hurtful comments to anybody that you please, though.
Just sayin'...

Last edited by JBDivmstr; 08-22-2013 at 06:45 PM.
#40
Old 08-22-2013, 07:15 PM
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Back in the late 70s I was using a pay phone in New York City near Times Square, and a hooker grabbed my dick. But I just count that as a particularly aggressive sales technique. I waved her off (and checked to make sure I still had my wallet.)
#41
Old 08-22-2013, 07:16 PM
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I try not to be rude to people, and I'm not a cat-caller.
But telling me I can't comment on a woman, because I'm a man, is not only foolish, but sexist as well.
Men comment on other men. Women comment on men (usually with eyes, but sometimes out loud)
Meanwhile, I can't make a comment? Really?


Quote:
Make the wrong type of comment, to the wrong person, and you could very well wake up wondering if anybody got the license plate number of the 'truck' that just 'cleaned your clock', so to speak
I learned martial arts from a female instructor. Small, cute, curvy, and utterly lethal.
She would have destroyed any man in the class and we all knew it.

Last edited by aNewLeaf; 08-22-2013 at 07:17 PM.
#42
Old 08-22-2013, 07:35 PM
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Reading the OP, I didn't think I had any stories to share but a couple replies made me recall an old story.

I used to play in a band and there was a longtime friend of some of my bandmates who hung around a lot. I can remember us all hanging out one night and they were ribbing about how he should just admit he was gay. He was apparently struggling with his sexuality and they told how he would really change when he was drinking, night and day. He was there during all this and shook his head laughing the whole time, saying "Nope, not true at all. Haha, never happened, no." I honestly didn't believe it and figured they were just goofing off.

Later at a party, my mind was changed. We'd all been drinking and he perfectly played the part of a too-forward, grabby, stereotypical gay man. He assumed a voice affectation and went to all the men in the place and grabbed what he could (front & back) while propositioning till he was pushed away. Then, over to the next guy. Those who'd known him for years did the rolleyes and made 'yer cut off' type comments. It was all pretty lighthearted though since I'd just met him, it was a little startling.
Later, his buddies were 'Hey, xyz? What happened last weekend? You kinda went around touching and hitting on all the men."
"Nope, not true at all. Haha, never happened, no."

There's been some other club and bar dancefloor type incidents with women. While maybe a minor annoyance, they certainly weren't threatening and there might have been some flattery in there, too.
#43
Old 08-22-2013, 07:52 PM
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Never. I had a teenage girl kick me in the groin for fun (she ran off laughing) in high school, but that's the closest I've ever come to being groped. Groping would have hurt less, I'm sure.

Last edited by Der Trihs; 08-22-2013 at 07:53 PM.
#44
Old 08-22-2013, 08:50 PM
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Posts: 5,032
I had a co-worker sit in my lap at the office once. I'm pretty sure she was hitting on me..there really wasn't much else to explain it.

At Mardi Gras once, a friend of mine took me into a club, and didn't tell me that there was a room they called the "Touchy Feely" room. I was groped a few times before I was able to get out. It was a very odd experience.
#45
Old 08-22-2013, 09:00 PM
Guest
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Emerald City South
Posts: 2,301
The butcher at the grocery store where I worked as a teenaged bagger liked to fondle the butts of all us cute teenaged boys. It started out as a kind of joke, but one day I realized he was doing it in an overtly sexual way, not as a joke. I told him to knock it off and not do it again, and he didn't.
#46
Old 08-22-2013, 09:16 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Ohio (the 'burbs)
Posts: 39,815
Yes, by none other than Paul Lynde, very drunk and very obnoxious. I've told this story in a couple of other threads, and I'm not feeling up to going through it again.
#47
Old 08-22-2013, 09:16 PM
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,968
A couple of times by women at dance clubs. That was a long time ago though.
#48
Old 08-22-2013, 09:16 PM
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,363
By a woman? Sadly, no.

Cops don't make much money, so extra jobs are common.

I worked security at a gay bar in Midtown Atlanta. Mostly outside to protect the guys from rednecks in from the country on a weekend night, and keep an eye on the cars out back. Every time I'd go inside, it was a gauntlet of pinches, pats, and jokes about my baton or men in uniform.

No one was ever pushy or even very serious; they knew I was straight. They were just having some drunken fun, and I was making $50/hour cash. Why make waves?
#49
Old 08-22-2013, 11:03 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Van Nuys, CA
Posts: 11,663
Yes. By both men and women.
#50
Old 08-22-2013, 11:46 PM
Guest
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Chicago
Posts: 8,584
Yes, by a guy. Around 1970. I was in my early 20s and down to a normal weight (thanks to doctor-prescribed pills, probably some amphetamine). I was standing on the El platform and a guy about the same age brushed against my rear. Once, an accident. The second time, obviously not.
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