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Old 06-08-2014, 12:18 PM
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Patton on liberal politicians

Did George S. Patton say 'Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politicians.'? I see a lot of people posting it, but I haven't found anything that cites when and where he said it, or gives evidence that he did not say it.
Old 06-08-2014, 12:33 PM
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First appeared in 1982 in a book called The Unknown Patton. It's a completely unsourced quote (as is the whole book) which appears nowhere else.

http://barrypopik.com/index.php/...life_on_earth/
Old 06-08-2014, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tapioca Dextrin View Post
First appeared in 1982 in a book.....
And it really seems like a 1982 kind of thing to say..
Old 06-08-2014, 12:41 PM
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Right, in the time frame he lived, would the wording used even have been "Liberal Democrats" to begin with? It does have the strong whiff of a retroactive attribution.

Not that we should lend much weight to the opinion of Old Blood'n'Guts on anything other than combined-arms tactics, in any case.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 06-08-2014 at 12:44 PM.
Old 06-08-2014, 12:46 PM
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Not that we should lend much weight to the opinion of Old Blood'n'Guts on anything other than combined-arms tactics, in any case.
as opposed to politicians who gain their jobs based on a popularity contest?
Old 06-08-2014, 12:48 PM
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In the 1982 books introduction, it states;

"While not all source material was taken literally into quotations or even utilized as pure textual content, they were used rather as background data to supply a feeling or under- standing of a situation prior to writing about it."


What the hell does that mean?

http://delta_1_41_inf.tripod.com/ima...own_patton.pdf

Last edited by Fishtar; 06-08-2014 at 12:52 PM.
Old 06-08-2014, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Fishtar View Post
What the hell does that mean?
That all quotes are 100% true. Including those which are entirely made up.
Old 06-08-2014, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Tapioca Dextrin View Post
That all quotes are 100% true. Including those which are entirely made up.
That is what I thought it meant.
Old 06-08-2014, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
as opposed to politicians who gain their jobs based on a popularity contest?
I don't give them much credence about combined arms tactics, no.
Old 06-08-2014, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapioca Dextrin View Post
First appeared in 1982 in a book called The Unknown Patton. It's a completely unsourced quote (as is the whole book) which appears nowhere else.

http://barrypopik.com/index.php/...life_on_earth/
Was going to report that, but you got ahead of me, besides that problem of the source not being clear, the context does not show a nice picture: just before that quote we have these morsels of wisdom:

http://books.google.com/books?ei=qpa...lume&q=liberal
Quote:
The noise created against me is only the means by which the Jews and Communists are attempting, and with good success, to implement a further dismemberment of Germany.

The whole damned world is going communist.

It is interesting to note that everything for which I have been criticized in the handling of the Germans has subsequently been adopted by our Military Government. I stated that if we took all of the small Nazi's out of every job, chaos would result, and it did. The Military Government the other day announced that from two to five percent of Nazi's would be permitted to stay in government offices.
The problem was that at the time George wanted to see a new war to start against the Russians, with Nazis helping as "new allies" his loud opinions were a factor on why they took the third army from him. And then his tirade against the Jews is very ugly considering that by then the evidence of the holocaust was in front of faces like his.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 06-08-2014 at 01:19 PM.
Old 06-08-2014, 02:41 PM
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I don't give them much credence about combined arms tactics, no.
popularity is not a reason to hire someone.

Politicians are people who acquire their jobs through no fault of their own and they generally have the skills to prove it.
Old 06-08-2014, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
popularity is not a reason to hire someone.

Politicians are people who acquire their jobs through no fault of their own and they generally have the skills to prove it.
How do you imagine hiring works? A group of people look over the applicants for a job and then choose the one they think is the best. And there's a word for somebody who people prefer.
Old 06-08-2014, 03:08 PM
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This book, The Unknown Patton, a link to which is given in post #6, appears to be a real mess. The part which the quotation comes from is on pages 32 and 57 of that book. The same quotation appears twice, which is part of how confused the book is. It appears that the author isn't even trying to source anything he's writing about. It appears that he's just saying that he thinks that this is the overall philosophy of Patton, and he doesn't have to provide a source for anything attributed to Patton.
Old 06-08-2014, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
as opposed to politicians who gain their jobs based on a popularity contest?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
popularity is not a reason to hire someone.

Politicians are people who acquire their jobs through no fault of their own and they generally have the skills to prove it.
So you are opposed to the very principle of democracy, huh? That's good to know.
Old 06-08-2014, 03:54 PM
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I am with Macgiver. Democracy sucks. Unfortunately everything else sucks worse.....

Perhaps we should start cloning our leaders?
Old 06-08-2014, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
popularity is not a reason to hire someone.

Politicians are people who acquire their jobs through no fault of their own and they generally have the skills to prove it.
Do you think Patton actually made that quote?

Last edited by Czarcasm; 06-08-2014 at 04:24 PM.
Old 06-08-2014, 04:33 PM
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So you are opposed to the very principle of democracy, huh? That's good to know.
Pointing out the the limitations of democracy, politicians or politics is not quite the same as opposing democracy. He could just as easily have pointed out the dangers of eating chocolate without being against chocolate.
Old 06-08-2014, 06:17 PM
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So you are opposed to the very principle of democracy, huh? That's good to know.
That's not what I implied and you know it. There are no skill requirements at all for a politician beyond popularity. None. And it shows. We're drowning in debt and money is still routinely voted down a rabbit hole as if there is no tomorrow.
Old 06-08-2014, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
That's not what I implied and you know it. There are no skill requirements at all for a politician beyond popularity. None. And it shows. We're drowning in debt and money is still routinely voted down a rabbit hole as if there is no tomorrow.
We are? Funny, that's not what the budget reporting says.
Old 06-08-2014, 06:37 PM
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We are? Funny, that's not what the budget reporting says.
Really? One relatively good year out of the last 7 or 8 is not a satisfactory budget report. And relatively being the all important word. A debt of 16 trillion(in reality its higher) is not offset by one year of reasonable deficits. Best to go through the entire economic cycle before judging the health of US debt.
Old 06-08-2014, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Do you think Patton actually made that quote?
I know this is not directed to me, but I would had just declared the quote to be unsourced, but I got curious and looked around for how he saw Roosevelt, his driver reported that he did dislike politicians, but Patton told him that he was close to President Roosevelt.

http://books.google.com/books?id=kMw...rouble&f=false

One has to remember that his most in-famous comment was:

http://newyorker.com/online/blog...cchrystal.html
Quote:
Quote:
General Patton went on to declare that he had “never seen the necessity of the denazification program,” asserting that 98 per cent of the Nazis were just camp followers.
The Times reporter wrote that “some of his viewers expressed amazement at his arithmetic.” Patton indicated that the numbers might not be exact, but then, according to Time’s account of the press conference in its issue of October 1, 1945, he

Quote:
brandished his riding crop and informed the press: “Well, I’ll tell you. This Nazi thing. It’s just like a Democratic-Republican election fight."
Seems to me than then he was an equal opportunity offender of the American Politicians, that and his relation with Roosevelt make me doubt more if Patton did say the quote from the OP in that exact way.

So, un-sourced and doubtful IMHO.
Old 06-08-2014, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
That's not what I implied and you know it. There are no skill requirements at all for a politician beyond popularity. None.
No, I don't know it and you did, directly, imply it. What do you think democracy is if it does not mean that "politicians ... gain their jobs based on a popularity contest"? Yes, you are right that there are no skill requirements for politicians except "popularity", i.e., the ability to attract votes, but that is an unavoidable consequence of having a democratic political system. If it is of dealbreaking importance for you, then you are against democracy. If you are committed to democracy, it is something that you need to stop bitching about and learn to live with.

Your opinions about government debt and spending, misguided as I think they are, are quite irrelevant to this point.
Old 06-08-2014, 06:46 PM
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Really? One relatively good year out of the last 7 or 8 is not a satisfactory budget report. And relatively being the all important word. A debt of 16 trillion(in reality its higher) is not offset by one year of reasonable deficits. Best to go through the entire economic cycle before judging the health of US debt.
Cite?
Old 06-08-2014, 06:46 PM
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As the thread-starter, may I ask that we stick to the question?

Thank you.
Old 06-08-2014, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnny L.A. View Post
As the thread-starter, may I ask that we stick to the question?

Thank you.
No offence, but it's a yes or no question you asked. I think it has been answered. There are only so many times the question can be answered with a resounding, no. That is if no-one else can answer the question in the positive.
Old 06-08-2014, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
as opposed to politicians who gain their jobs based on a popularity contest?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
popularity is not a reason to hire someone.

Politicians are people who acquire their jobs through no fault of their own and they generally have the skills to prove it.
Moderator Note

Magiver, your personal opinions about politicians are irrelevant to the OP. Unless you have some factual information specifically relevant to the question, let's drop it.

And everyone else, let's drop the hijack as well and get back to the authenticity of the quote.

Colibri
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:19 PM
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Cite?
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...27374039087636

If the US Federal Government required itself to follow standard accounting practices(practices it requires everyone else to legally follow) then US national debt would be much greater than its currently reported $16 trillion.
Old 06-08-2014, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy_wuzzy View Post
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...27374039087636

If the US Federal Government required itself to follow standard accounting practices(practices it requires everyone else to legally follow) then US national debt would be much greater than its currently reported $16 trillion.
Moderator Note

Fuzzy-wuzzy, discussion of the US national debt is off topic for this thread. As I instructed, drop the hijack.

Colibri
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MODERATOR INSTRUCTIONS

TO EVERYONE: DROP THE HIJACK AND RESTRICT YOUR COMMENTS TO THE FACTUALITY OF THE QUOTE IN THE OP

Thank you for your attention.

Colibri
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishtar View Post
In the 1982 books introduction, it states;

"While not all source material was taken literally into quotations or even utilized as pure textual content, they were used rather as background data to supply a feeling or under- standing of a situation prior to writing about it."


What the hell does that mean?

http://delta_1_41_inf.tripod.com/ima...own_patton.pdf
It means two things:

1. "I have lots of source material which I do not set out explicity in the book, but which nevertheless influences what I do say in the book."

2. "I am barely literate. I think 'material' can be treated abitrarily as either single or plural -sometimes both, in the same sentence."
Old 06-08-2014, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
Moderator Note

Fuzzy-wuzzy, discussion of the US national debt is off topic for this thread. As I instructed, drop the hijack.

Colibri
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MODERATOR INSTRUCTIONS

TO EVERYONE: DROP THE HIJACK AND RESTRICT YOUR COMMENTS TO THE FACTUALITY OF THE QUOTE IN THE OP

Thank you for your attention.

Colibri
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My previous post and your warning crossed.
Old 06-08-2014, 08:37 PM
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My previous post and your warning crossed.
OK. I didn't notice they were so close in time.
Old 06-09-2014, 12:28 AM
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Before anyone uses that book, The Unknown Patton, as the source for anything, they should be required to actually read it. It's an utter mess. The quotation in the OP is found on pages 31 and 57 of the book. The author doesn't even make any attempt to tell you where it comes from. He more or less says that this is just his personal interpretation of what Patton believed.
Old 06-09-2014, 12:46 AM
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Truman apparently wrote in a diary entry, "A professional liberal is the worst form of politician.", and after Eleanor Roosevelt refused to endorse him for the nomination in 1948, wrote of her in his diary, "No professional liberal is intellectually honest." It's not a Patton quote, but it's the best I can find.
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