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Old 08-13-2014, 12:26 PM
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Do Subarus have a deserved reputation for leaking oil?

I'm in the market for a used Subaru Forester and it's been mentioned that they have a reputation of leaking oil.

All makes and models can leak oil, some often do at some point in their life. Searching the Subaru auto forums doesn't give me a good idea about the frequency as compared to any other vehicle so I ask the gear heads here.

Is it fair to single out Subarus vehicles for being particularly prone to this?
Old 08-13-2014, 01:24 PM
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I thought the issue was excessive oil use, not leakage. There is a class action lawsuit.

We have an Outback that uses sufficient oil between 7,500 mile oil changes that the warning light comes on. Throwing in an extra quart at 5,000 miles avoids that. It's a great car and putting $4 of oil in every 7,500 miles doesn't bother us.
Old 08-13-2014, 01:32 PM
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There was an era of crappy head gaskets that leaked oil and caused other problems. Subies after about 2007 aren't any more prone to oil leaks than any other make.
Old 08-13-2014, 01:35 PM
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I've never owned one, but have 2 friends with them and there are a bunch in this neck of the woods.

I think it has to do with the horizontal configuration of the engine. When not running, oil can pool across the entire "bottom" of the engine, including the heads and will tend to exhibit a little dripping more so then a "regular" engine where the oil pools in the oil pan, and not across multiple components sealed with gaskets. Others will be along with better info, but they have jobs, so you have to settle for this, for now.

I'd love one, and would buy one in a heartbeat if I could afford a low-mile WRX STi. Ain't gonna happen, however.
Old 08-13-2014, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatopescado View Post
I'd love one, and would buy one in a heartbeat if I could afford a low-mile WRX STi. Ain't gonna happen, however.
One of the cars I would never buy used is an STi. Likelihood of severe abuse is just too high.

STi drivers are young, stupid and crazy. I'll accept a Highway 1 challenge from a Murcielego driven by Bruce Wayne before I'll stay in the next lane to a 20-something in an STi.

A new one, though... heh heh heh.

Last edited by Amateur Barbarian; 08-13-2014 at 01:56 PM.
Old 08-13-2014, 02:05 PM
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I own a Forester, three years now. No oil leakage I know about. For what it is worth.

It's a fine car, no unusual mechanical problems. Two things I would complain about, from my experience:

(1) The sound system it comes with sucks.

(2) The paint used on the car is delicate and scratches at the slightest provocation.

Other than that, I love this car.
Old 08-13-2014, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur Barbarian View Post
One of the cars I would never buy used is an STi. Likelihood of severe abuse is just too high.

STi drivers are young, stupid and crazy. I'll accept a Highway 1 challenge from a Murcielego driven by Bruce Wayne before I'll stay in the next lane to a 20-something in an STi.

A new one, though... heh heh heh.
Now, you'd be just as foolish if you got one.

All I can add is that my 2012 WRX (nope, not nuts enough for an STi anymore) hasn't leaked oil other than the time I crimped the oil filter using the wrong wrench to tighten it (moral: use the right wrench). A friend had an SVX that had a head gasket problem, but they later bought a 2007 WRX, and haven't had any such problems. Other than anecdotes, I've got nuttin.
Old 08-13-2014, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by scabpicker View Post
Now, you'd be just as foolish if you got one.
No more foolish than I am in my race-bred summer car with around a 1:6 HP-to-weight ratio.
Old 08-13-2014, 03:08 PM
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My wife used to drive a 2002 Subaru Outback, which had numerous oil leak/head gasket problems. The mechanics at our local shop knew about this, but were really unable to help, I'm guessing because it was a design issue.

In 2012, we replaced it with a 2012 Subaru Forester, and have had no problems with it. If you're looking at a used Subaru, you'll want a more recent one. We've loved the Forester we have now, but we did buy it new.
Old 08-13-2014, 03:24 PM
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My daughter bought a new 2014 Forester a year ago and it used excessive oil since new. Subaru replaced the rings a couple months ago and it still used excessive oil. Subaru is now in the process of replacing the entire engine (a new one had to be ordered from Japan). Not surpriziningly, Subaru required that the dealer top up the oil and check it themselves after a thousand miles before doing any work. This was very inconvenient since she lives several hours drive away from the nearest Subaru dealer. Double inconvenient since she gave birth to twins while her car was having the rings replaced. The dealer gave her a loaner for the ring job and engine replacement. Except for this, she loves the car.
Old 08-13-2014, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlarm View Post
My daughter bought a new 2014 Forester a year ago [...] she lives several hours drive away from the nearest Subaru dealer.
Honestly, there's part of the problem right there. Whether or not a car has special problems, it's going to need to visit the dealer frequently in its first few warranty and maintenance years. Even with the compelling reasons to buy a Subaru (and there are many - I probably wouldn't buy anything else in that class), having a dealer hundreds of miles and multiple hours away is just asking for inconvenience.
Old 08-13-2014, 03:44 PM
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I had a '92 Legacy wagon, an '08 Forester, and now a '14 Forester. Not had a problem with any of them.
Old 08-13-2014, 04:05 PM
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We're on Subaru number 6. Have driven them since '81 model year. None of the six have used a bit of oil between scheduled oil changes. Last two have been Foresters, a 2004 bought used and a 2014 bought new last September. All the others have been Legacies of various body styles, including several turbos.

As long as they make them, I'll probably always have at least one.
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Old 08-13-2014, 04:14 PM
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My 2003 WRX Impreza uses a quart or 2 of oil between changes (~10K miles), but itís never leaked oil in the 11 years that Iíve been (loving) driving it. Just wanted to volunteer another anecdotal data point to aid your research.
Old 08-13-2014, 04:29 PM
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Used to have (IIRC) a 1993 GL, and the only time it leaked oil was when the oil pressure sensor cracked at around 75,000 miles. At least that was an easy "unscrew the old, screw in the new" repair while doing an oil change.
Old 08-13-2014, 04:36 PM
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I have a 2011 Subaru Legacy. It definitely doesn't leak oil, as I would have noticed on the driveway. It also doesn't use oil, as I've never had to add between oil changes. I haven't had a single problem or issue with the car in 3.5 years.

[knocking on wood with one hand while clicking the mouse with the other]
Old 08-13-2014, 04:59 PM
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I would just like to say that "Subaru" would make an excellent name for a killer samurai robot.
Old 08-13-2014, 05:17 PM
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Subaru had problems with the head gaskets on their bread n' butter EJ family 4 cylinder for an embarrassingly long period of time. Oil leakage was one way the head gasket problem could manifest itself, although I think oil or coolant consumption was more common. It was practically an epidemic during the 90's and early 2000's, but it was a weak point on most of their earlier engines as well. The later EJs with the "fixed" gaskets were definitely better, but still eat head gaskets with more frequency than you would expect from car of that vintage.

The new FB engine family (as of 2011 or so) thus far seems to be doing pretty well although it appears there's been few oil burners here and there from the factory. I just bought a 2014 with one of these and I've definitely been watching the oil level closely, but so far so good.

My general advice would be if you're looking at 10 year old or so cars, definitely do some research into which years and engines were affected by the worst of the head gasket problems. Either avoid those cars or demand evidence that the "upgraded" gaskets were installed by the dealer. Otherwise, in general, 90's and 2000's Subarus are great cars but (despite the claims of their enthusiastic owners) aren't really at the top of the heap reliability-wise. They're not unreliable, but they're definitely closer to that vintage GM or Ford than Honda or Toyota. IMHO it's a small trade off for the utility and capability of their cars, but if reliability is the main concern they wouldn't be at the top of my list.

(Although incidentally the reliability data so far seems to show the 2010's Subarus with the new engines and other improvements as actually doing very well even compared to the other Japanese makes. That, along with big improvements in fuel economy, will probably lead to us seeing a lot more Subies on the road. Even in places where you can't ski!)

Last edited by GreasyJack; 08-13-2014 at 05:19 PM.
Old 08-13-2014, 06:48 PM
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I have a Forester purchased new in 2004. I have never had an oil leak; nor has the oil light come on. Additionally I am embarrassed to admit the last oil change was over a year ago. I have only driven about 1500 miles during the past year. I now have approximately 66,000 miles on the car.
Old 08-13-2014, 08:04 PM
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Two data points from me. I have owned a 1996 Outback 2.5l with DOHC engine and a slight oil leak that really only showed as a oil burning smell when hot as the leak got to the exhaust side of the engine. It had done around 180,000 km when that came up though.
I've now got a 2005 Legacy station wagon with 2.5l SOHC engine. It's done about 120,000 km and has no leaks and no appreciable oil usage between services.
Old 08-13-2014, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreasyJack View Post
Subaru had problems with the head gaskets on their bread n' butter EJ family 4 cylinder for an embarrassingly long period of time. Oil leakage was one way the head gasket problem could manifest itself, although I think oil or coolant consumption was more common. It was practically an epidemic during the 90's and early 2000's, but it was a weak point on most of their earlier engines as well. The later EJs with the "fixed" gaskets were definitely better, but still eat head gaskets with more frequency than you would expect from car of that vintage.
That reminds me of one more data point. My daughter had a '98 Legacy that blew a head gasket at 180K; I hadn't even considered that it might be related.
Old 08-14-2014, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatopescado View Post
I think it has to do with the horizontal configuration of the engine. When not running, oil can pool across the entire "bottom" of the engine, including the heads and will tend to exhibit a little dripping more so then a "regular" engine where the oil pools in the oil pan, and not across multiple components sealed with gaskets. Others will be along with better info, but they have jobs, so you have to settle for this, for now.
This might be it. I've never owned a Subaru, but I've owned a few BMW motorcycles, which have the same boxer engine configuration as the Subaru (but with only two cylinders).

If you park a BMW on the sidestand, so the bike is leaning to the left, engine oil can leak past the rings into the left combustion chamber, so you'll burn that oil off when you start the bike and run it for a while.

I hear the same thing can happen with BMW's K-series engines, which aren't boxer engines, but are lay-down flat engines. So you could have the same problem, except with three or four cylinders.
Old 08-14-2014, 04:14 PM
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"Honestly, there's part of the problem right there. Whether or not a car has special problems, it's going to need to visit the dealer frequently in its first few warranty and maintenance years. Even with the compelling reasons to buy a Subaru (and there are many - I probably wouldn't buy anything else in that class), having a dealer hundreds of miles and multiple hours away is just asking for inconvenience."

There aren't any other car dealers any closer. She lives out in the "boonies" and off the grid, etc. Before the Subaru, she had been driving a ten year old four wheel drive truck. It kept breaking down. Most of the time she was able to fix it herself, but it was a pain to get to a professional mechanic when she couldn't. The idea was that a new car would be more dependable.

I was very disappointed and surprised when I heard about the excessive oil consumption for her new car. The only car I've owned that used more than a quart of oil between oil changes was an RX-7. But that's expected with a rotary engine.
Old 08-14-2014, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by amarone View Post
I thought the issue was excessive oil use, not leakage. There is a class action lawsuit.

We have an Outback that uses sufficient oil between 7,500 mile oil changes that the warning light comes on. Throwing in an extra quart at 5,000 miles avoids that. It's a great car and putting $4 of oil in every 7,500 miles doesn't bother us.
Thank you for that link. I have a 2012 Impreza that has burned oil since the day I got it. I put in a quart between every 5,000 mile oil change. I had them look at it and got no satisfaction.
Old 08-14-2014, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Loach View Post
Thank you for that link. I have a 2012 Impreza that has burned oil since the day I got it. I put in a quart between every 5,000 mile oil change. I had them look at it and got no satisfaction.
Here is an old thread I started on the subject. The linked article above makes me think I'll have to put in another call to the dealer.

But the consensus in that thread was basically meh.
Old 08-14-2014, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loach View Post
Here is an old thread I started on the subject. The linked article above makes me think I'll have to put in another call to the dealer.

But the consensus in that thread was basically meh.
Just out of curiosity, how many miles do you have on the car now and have you noticed any change in the consumption rate?

I did a bunch of forum-reading on the oil issues with the new motors before buying my '14 Crosstrek. It seems like in about half of the cases the oil consumption gradually got better or went away on its own. At least back then (this was late last year) it appeared that Subaru was calling about 1qt/3000 miles normal and doing the ring repair or replacing the engine on anything that burned more than that (although the vigor with which they'd pursue the problem varied greatly from dealer to dealer.) I guess fortunately or unfortunately depending on how you want to look at it, the problems don't seem to worsen so if you're only burning 1qt/5000 miles you're probably stuck with it unless the lawsuit somehow changes things. But as I said in the earlier thread, 1qt/5000 is maybe a little disheartening on a brand new car, but isn't really anything to worry about.

FWIW, my car burned about a pint of oil in the first 1000 miles (leading to much hand-wringing on my part), another pint in the next 2000, but hasn't burned any appreciable amount since the first oil change. I've got around 21k on it now.
Old 08-22-2014, 10:29 AM
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I'm going to be mostly away from the board for a bit but some might be interested in this so I'll update.

Last week (coincidentally right after this thread popped up) my oil light went on again. This was less than 2,000 miles after my last oil change. I got on the phone with the dealer and spoke to the General Manager. I told him how the car was burning oil. I told him that this has been happening ever since I bought it. I told him I brought it in and they told me there was nothing wrong and sent me on my way. I told him I knew about the lawsuit and the internal correspondence about the problem. He of course was very apologetic. He said to come in right away and there were some tests they could run.

So I brought it in. The tests turned out to be the same oil consumption tests they did before. But since the problem is now known to be widespread they have a special form for it. They gave me a free oil change and I have to bring it back every 1200 miles. We'll see what happens.





Quote:
Originally Posted by GreasyJack View Post
Just out of curiosity, how many miles do you have on the car now and have you noticed any change in the consumption rate?

I did a bunch of forum-reading on the oil issues with the new motors before buying my '14 Crosstrek. It seems like in about half of the cases the oil consumption gradually got better or went away on its own. At least back then (this was late last year) it appeared that Subaru was calling about 1qt/3000 miles normal and doing the ring repair or replacing the engine on anything that burned more than that (although the vigor with which they'd pursue the problem varied greatly from dealer to dealer.) I guess fortunately or unfortunately depending on how you want to look at it, the problems don't seem to worsen so if you're only burning 1qt/5000 miles you're probably stuck with it unless the lawsuit somehow changes things. But as I said in the earlier thread, 1qt/5000 is maybe a little disheartening on a brand new car, but isn't really anything to worry about.

FWIW, my car burned about a pint of oil in the first 1000 miles (leading to much hand-wringing on my part), another pint in the next 2000, but hasn't burned any appreciable amount since the first oil change. I've got around 21k on it now.
I'm at about 43,000 miles. It averages needing a quart between every oil change. I've had quite a few cars in my life and except for a beater I got when I was young, I have never needed to put oil in a car between changes. Not once. They might call it normal. I call it a design flaw. If I don't get any satisfaction I will never buy another Subaru again.
Old 08-22-2014, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Loach View Post
I'm at about 43,000 miles. It averages needing a quart between every oil change. I've had quite a few cars in my life and except for a beater I got when I was young, I have never needed to put oil in a car between changes. Not once. They might call it normal. I call it a design flaw. If I don't get any satisfaction I will never buy another Subaru again.
I can't really argue with you, but it's not so cut and dried. I've never had a car that needed an oil top-up between changes, either. But every single owners manual I've read states that it's normal for an engine to consume up to a quart of oil every 1,000 miles or so. So, from the manufacturer's end, using a bit of oil is "normal". Putting in a quart of oil once every few thousand miles costs very little.
Old 08-22-2014, 12:02 PM
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I've had 3 Subaru Imprezas:

1.) 1998 Impreza with the 2.2L. Never lost oil.

2.) 2001 Impreza 2.5 RS. Never lost oil.

3.) 2008 Impreza 2.5i. Lost oil regularly, though it seemed to get better as it got older. I never got a solid answer from the Dealer about it, and at the time hadn't heard about the oil loss issue. I traded it back in 2012 with around 95,000 miles on it. The oil light never came on and I never actually had to add oil, only noting the stick read low between changes.
Old 08-22-2014, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sparky! View Post
3.) 2008 Impreza 2.5i. Lost oil regularly, though it seemed to get better as it got older. I never got a solid answer from the Dealer about it, and at the time hadn't heard about the oil loss issue. I traded it back in 2012 with around 95,000 miles on it. The oil light never came on and I never actually had to add oil, only noting the stick read low between changes.
Well, the oil issue that's spurred the lawsuit and such is only on the new engine family which they started using around the 2012 model year, so your '08 wouldn't have been affected.

Also the oil light in question that's been coming on with the newer cars is the low oil level light that comes on when it's about a quart low, not the oil pressure light which comes on when you're pretty much out of oil. That's one reason why I take complaints about oil consumption on newer cars with a bit of a grain of salt-- in a lot of cases it's people who never check their oil between changes and so never noticed oil consumption on their previous cars, but they get a fancy new car with an oil level sensor and a long oil change interval and they start screaming bloody murder when the light comes on showing they're a quart low at 7,000 miles into a 10,000 mile interval (or whatever).
Old 08-22-2014, 01:03 PM
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So much for that lightly used WRX I wanted.
Old 08-22-2014, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright View Post
So much for that lightly used WRX I wanted.
One of the ironies of the old Subaru head gasket issue is that they never really had any problems with their turbo fours (or H6's). So the sorts of high performance cars you'd expect to be a little temperamental were pretty bulletproof, whereas they had all sorts of problems with their boring old grocery-getter engines.

With the new engine family, the WRX isn't mentioned on the oil consumption lawsuit and I haven't heard any particular complaints about them, so history may be repeating there. Of course it may also be that everyone just blames whatever problems the WRX's have on their testosterone-addled owners.
Old 08-22-2014, 02:26 PM
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... it may also be that everyone just blames whatever problems the WRX's have on their testosterone-addled owners.
Old 08-24-2014, 11:30 AM
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I had a '92 Legacy wagon
This thing is a beast
Value will only increase
Been negotiating turns like peace in the Middle East
There's only three of it's kind, they're never easy to find
Got people waiting in line to pay me double for mine

You better make way cause I'm coming through
In my late '92 baby blue Subaru


- Fountains of Wayne
Old 12-09-2014, 10:19 AM
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Update for those interested. Subaru has agreed that there is a problem with oil consumption in my car. After several consumption surveys they put in a brand new engine block free of charge. 47,000 miles on the car.
Old 12-09-2014, 12:50 PM
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So much for that lightly used WRX I wanted.
There is no such thing as a lightly used WRX.
Old 12-09-2014, 12:51 PM
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Update for those interested. Subaru has agreed that there is a problem with oil consumption in my car. After several consumption surveys they put in a brand new engine block free of charge. 47,000 miles on the car.
Nice! And thanks for the info. I have family now looking at Subarus. Good to see outcomes like this.
Old 12-09-2014, 02:25 PM
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I had a 1993 subaru that the head started seeping on after I broke a fan belt and overheated the engine. I retorqued the head and the problem was gone. I suspect a lot of the heads could use retorquing.
Old 12-09-2014, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Loach View Post
Update for those interested. Subaru has agreed that there is a problem with oil consumption in my car. After several consumption surveys they put in a brand new engine block free of charge. 47,000 miles on the car.
Nice! Thanks for the update.
Old 12-09-2014, 03:41 PM
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Update on my daughter's 2014 Forester

After the dealer replaced the rings, the engine still used excessive oil. Subaru replaced the engine with a new one. The new engine also uses excessive oil. My daughter is submitting paperwork under California's lemon law to have Subaru buy her car back.
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