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#1
Old 12-23-2014, 02:12 PM
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California Is Cold and Damp?

I was listening to the old song, "The Lady Is A Tramp," which contains the line:

Quote:
Hate California it's cold and it's damp

That's why the lady is a tramp
Other than the fact damp and tramp rhyme, I don't recall California ever referred to as being cold or damp.

Any meaning to it? Thanks.
#2
Old 12-23-2014, 02:14 PM
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Probably means San Francisco.

Did you know New England is oppressively hot and muggy? S'true.
#3
Old 12-23-2014, 02:18 PM
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There's more of California than Los Angeles and San Diego. Northern California certainly does get cold and damp.
#4
Old 12-23-2014, 02:19 PM
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Even L.A. gets 'June Gloom'.
#5
Old 12-23-2014, 02:26 PM
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As a matter of fact, parts of California can be pretty darned cold and damp certain times of the year. Hell, San Francisco is damp more often than not. Of course, that's the less than ideal truth behind its glamorous, golden state, land of sunshine image so maybe that goes with the theme of the song. The "tramp" of the song having been given that title by the high society women who look down upon her because she doesn't conform. They all brag about their glorious trips there and she's not impressed because it's cold and damp, and we all know that swipes at another female's sexuality is the common, go to insult.
#6
Old 12-23-2014, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur Barbarian View Post
Probably means San Francisco.
Indeed. San Francisco's Candlestick Park (the former home of the Giants and 49ers) was known as being the coldest park in major league baseball, particularly during night games. From Wikipedia:

Quote:
As a baseball field, the stadium was infamous for the windy conditions, damp air and dew from fog, and chilly temperatures. The wind often made life difficult for outfielders trying to catch fly balls, as well as for fans, while the damp grass further complicated play for outfielders who had to play in cold, wet shoes.
Quote:
The Giants eventually played on the reputation to bolster fan support with promotions such as awarding the Croix de Candlestick pin to fans who stayed for the duration of extra-inning night games. The pins featured the Giants' "SF" monogram capped with snow, along with the Latin slogan "Veni, vidi, vixi" ("I came, I saw, I survived").
#7
Old 12-23-2014, 02:40 PM
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Well, as Mark Twain never said, "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco."
#8
Old 12-23-2014, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny L.A. View Post
Even L.A. gets 'June Gloom'.
Several times in years past I've noticed that on Christmas day the temperature was lower in Los Angeles than New York City--or close to it.

The "damp" part, however, is generally left to Northern California. When Southern CA gets its coldest it's because of dry desert winds.
#9
Old 12-23-2014, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carryon View Post
I was listening to the old song, "The Lady Is A Tramp," which contains the line:







Other than the fact damp and tramp rhyme, I don't recall California ever referred to as being cold or damp.



Any meaning to it? Thanks.

The entire song is about a woman who doesn't go along with what everybody else in high society does or thinks—she eats dinner before 8, she is on time when she goes to the theater, she doesn't like the climate in California.

That's why the high society women call her a "tramp."
#10
Old 12-23-2014, 03:07 PM
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Seems I've often heard that kind of talk before.
#11
Old 12-23-2014, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjay View Post
There's more of California than Los Angeles and San Diego. Northern California certainly does get cold and damp.

He's probably thinking about parts of California that people actually care about.



#12
Old 12-23-2014, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guizot View Post
The "damp" part, however, is generally left to Northern California. When Southern CA gets its coldest it's because of dry desert winds.
Seems it never rains in Southern California.
Seems I've often heard that kind of talk before.
It never rains in California, but girl, don't they warn ya,
It pours, man, it pours.
#13
Old 12-23-2014, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethilrist View Post
Well, as Mark Twain never said, "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco."
In 2013, my summer birthday vacation involved a drive up the PCH. I bear witness that Twain's hyperbole has a basis in reality...

Last edited by JRDelirious; 12-23-2014 at 04:21 PM.
#14
Old 12-23-2014, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
The entire song is about a woman who doesn't go along with what everybody else in high society does or thinks—she eats dinner before 8, she is on time when she goes to the theater, she doesn't like the climate in California.
She slurps up spaghetti without a fork.
#15
Old 12-23-2014, 04:55 PM
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I was miserable cold and damp at Disneyland. We had a computer conference in LA and stayed at the Biltmore. The conference organized a trip to Disneyland at a reduced cost for sharing the shuttles. Stupid me didn't bring a sweater or jacket on that trip to SUNNY California. Good times in drizzling rain and temps in the 50's. Me in a short sleeve shirt.

So much for Sunny, warm California. We didn't hit the beach either or surf.

Last edited by aceplace57; 12-23-2014 at 04:58 PM.
#16
Old 12-23-2014, 04:57 PM
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I lived in the Sunset in San Francisco till I was 8 and then a few years more as an adult. Cold and foggy days abound, even in the summer. You dress for summer and get a quarter mile away from home and realize your mistake. Layers.
#17
Old 12-23-2014, 05:00 PM
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Coastal California is typically Mediterranean climate. Hot dry summers, cool, wet winters.

In the L.A. area and Central California all the way through to Sacramento, all the year's rainfall is between late October and March. It's rare to see any rain from April through the end of October.

So if a visitor was in SoCal in December, they would likely see it as chilly and damp. We call it 'the rainy season'.
#18
Old 12-23-2014, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Typo Negative View Post
Coastal California is typically Mediterranean climate. Hot dry summers, cool, wet winters.
It's rarely hot on the coast. You have to go a bit inland, especially in Northern CA. There is a mountain range about 10 - 15 miles from the coast and the temps can easily vary by 30 degrees in the summer between the coast and on the other side of the hill.

In fact, if you want warm days on the coast, you go there in Oct or May. Much of the summer is fogged in. I was in Carmel a few years ago on an Oct day when it got to 85 degrees and all the locals were freaking out. No one has A/C there.

Last edited by John Mace; 12-23-2014 at 05:12 PM.
#19
Old 12-23-2014, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Typo Negative View Post
Coastal California is typically Mediterranean climate. Hot dry summers, cool, wet winters.
This describes the Central Valley not so much the coastal regions.
#20
Old 12-23-2014, 05:30 PM
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And all the people dressed like monkeys.
#21
Old 12-23-2014, 05:45 PM
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Hart might have written "San Francisco" instead and avoided this problem.
#22
Old 12-23-2014, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
I was miserable cold and damp at Disneyland. . . .
That happened to me, too, once... BEST DAY EVER! Everybody else went home, and I had the place to myself! I rode the Matterhorn, and didn't even have to get out of the car! The ride operator said, "Anyone who wants to go again, just remain in your seat." WONDERFUL!

Yeah, I was cold, and wet. But...I had the complete run of Disneyland with no lines!

I'd do that again in a Silicon Valley nanosecond!
#23
Old 12-23-2014, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppallingGael View Post
Hart might have written "San Francisco" instead and avoided this problem.
It's not a problem. The whole point is that the woman has contrary opinions and preferences.
#24
Old 12-23-2014, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiannon8404 View Post
This describes the Central Valley not so much the coastal regions.
It describes the Los Angeles basin, Ventura, San Luis Obispo, Orange and San Diego Counties as well.

Quote:
Los Angeles has a Subtropical-Mediterranean climate (Köppen climate classification Csb on the coast, Csa inland), and receives just enough annual precipitation to avoid either Köppen's BSh or BSk (semi-arid climate) classification. Los Angeles has plenty of sunshine throughout the year, with an average of only 35 days with measurable precipitation annually.[68]
Quote:
Ventura has a Mediterranean climate, typical of most coastal California cities, with the sea breeze off the Pacific Ocean moderating temperatures. It is not uncommon for the city to be affected by Santa Ana winds off the Transverse Ranges on occasion, which increase temperatures dramatically.
Quote:
San Luis Obispo experiences a cool Mediterranean climate (Köppen climate classification Csb). On average it has 50 days with measurable rain per year – mostly during winter months. Summers are generally warm and sunny
Quote:
San Diego's climate is characterized by warm, dry summers and mild winters with most of the annual precipitation falling between December and March.
Quote:
Like many other South Coast cities, Anaheim maintains a Mediterranean climate, enjoying warm winters and hot summers.[34
#25
Old 12-23-2014, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Typo Negative View Post
It describes the Los Angeles basin, Ventura, San Luis Obispo, Orange and San Diego Counties as well.
How does "hot" apply to places that, per your own cites say:

'with the sea breeze off the Pacific Ocean moderating temperatures"

"Summers are generally warm"

"warm, dry summers"

The central valley is "hot" in the summer with temps typically in the 90s or higher. Places like Ventura and San Luis rarely get hot in the summer, with temps typically in the 70s and 80s. Hence "warm" or "moderate". Even San Jose will mostly see 80s in the summer. Sacramento is a Central Valley city that you'd expect to hit 90 most days in the summer. And equally as important, it doesn't cool off in the evenings as it does closer to the coast. It's a rare summer night in San Jose that doesn't dip below 70.

Last edited by John Mace; 12-23-2014 at 07:19 PM.
#26
Old 12-23-2014, 08:16 PM
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California is 800 miles from north to south. It contains a mountain range with peaks over 14,000 feet tall. It has extreme deserts and also temperate rainforests with over 100" a year. Pretty much nothing you can say about Californian climate is true everywhere in the state. Northern coastal CA is about as damp as anyone could wish. Stay still for a few minutes and moss will start growing on you.
#27
Old 12-23-2014, 09:30 PM
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Has anyone checked the original lyrics? I think the "California" line was added by Sinatra, as a tweak to Hollywood. The original, from 1937, has very dated references to NYC in the 1930's, according to our friends at Wikipedia.
#28
Old 12-23-2014, 09:34 PM
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Never mind. "California" is in an early Ella Fitzgerald version. It's here if you're interested:

http://songlyrics.com/ella-fitzg...-tramp-lyrics/
#29
Old 12-23-2014, 09:53 PM
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It was sunny and 70 degrees today in the Bay Area.
#30
Old 12-23-2014, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by agilpro View Post
It was sunny and 70 degrees today in the Bay Area.
Hush, you. The Ohio-folk will start packing up.
#31
Old 12-24-2014, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
It's not a problem. The whole point is that the woman has contrary opinions and preferences.
Exactly - she's contrary, and the lyrics namecheck somewhere known for its balmy weather for maximum irony.

It would be a pretty dull lyric if it was a true comment on climate - "Hates Alaska...etc" (and it wouldn't scan).
#32
Old 12-24-2014, 08:18 AM
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I don't understand why people seem to love San Francisco so much. It's always cold, and it's completely overrun by homeless people.
#33
Old 12-24-2014, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Ponch8 View Post
I don't understand why people seem to love San Francisco so much. It's always cold, and it's completely overrun by homeless people.
It's loved by and filled with people who are kind to the homeless, which explains the homeless. The sort of mean-hearted sons of bitches who despise the homeless are strongly disapproved of and shunned and not bought free drinks and generally encouraged to move to New York City with the lure of riches. We have our own stock exchange (The Pacific Stock Exchange) and our own lawyer culture, both of which are opposite of the nasty ass New York stockbroker and lawyer culture, both of which are shunned in the local professional community. There are only two days a year on average where an office building would need air conditioning, and the older ones don't have it. It is in the middle of the State and all its other treasures are therefore equidistant for different trips. It is the Cool Gray City of Love. The Summer of Love started in the summer of 1967 and occurs only in San Francisco. Hint: it is still going on, the hippies just took baths and got professional degrees and licenses and jobs, their children and grandchildren are continuing it.
#34
Old 12-24-2014, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by G0sp3l View Post
He's probably thinking about parts of California that people actually care about.
If you or anyone else for some inexplicable reason doesn't care about Northern California and the Sierra Nevada (which include the tallest peaks outside of Alaska in the US), you're missing out on some of the most glorious natural beauty to be find anywhere.

Mt. Shasta, Redwood Forest, Sequoias, Yosemite, Mt. Lassen, Mk. Whitney, Lake Tahoe, Death Valley ... sheesh. "Don't care." Pfft.

California has a full range of global climates and biomes, from temperate rain forests to desert and through to alpine tundra.

Last edited by Knorf; 12-24-2014 at 01:09 PM.
#35
Old 12-24-2014, 02:51 PM
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The entire song is about irony. That's why she's so contrarian. She's doing sensible things, contrary to the behavior of the "in" crowd. Sort of like "If these things make me a tramp in your eyes, then so be it, I'm a tramp."
#36
Old 12-24-2014, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Knorf View Post
California has a full range of global climates and biomes, from temperate rain forests to desert and through to alpine tundra.
When I moved here I was told about the microclimates. On any given day the weather in San Francisco is going to be different from the weather in Pleasanton which is going to be different from the weather in San Jose.

BTW today it is cold and damp - cold by our standards, anyhow.
#37
Old 12-25-2014, 07:58 AM
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The coldest football game I ever played in was in Moro Bay, California, and that includes a blizzard in Golden, Colorado, that we got a longer halftime for. It was 40 deg and 100% humidity with a slight breeze. If thats not cold and damp I don't know what is.
#38
Old 12-25-2014, 09:53 AM
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I always assumed it was irony.
#39
Old 12-25-2014, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by guizot View Post
Several times in years past I've noticed that on Christmas day the temperature was lower in Los Angeles than New York City--or close to it.
The low temperature forecast for New York City tomorrow (Dec 26) is 38 degrees F. The low temperature forecast for La Mesa, CA (the city next to San Diego) tomorrow is ALSO 38 degrees F.
#40
Old 12-25-2014, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
I always assumed it was irony.
Her clothes are wrinkled because she hates irony.

She's dynamite with a laser beam
#41
Old 12-25-2014, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
When I moved here I was told about the microclimates. On any given day the weather in San Francisco is going to be different from the weather in Pleasanton which is going to be different from the weather in San Jose.
Sorry to nit pick (emphasis added), but that's more of a summer than winter phenomenon. In the winter, we have a lot more uniform temps around the bay area. Maybe a bit warmer in SF than in the SJ, but usually pretty close. In summer, there can easily be a 30 degree difference.
#42
Old 12-25-2014, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by guizot View Post
The low temperature forecast for New York City tomorrow (Dec 26) is 38 degrees F. The low temperature forecast for La Mesa, CA (the city next to San Diego) tomorrow is ALSO 38 degrees F.
Today, here in balmy San Diego, its going to be in the mid 60's. Tomorrow morning it will drop into the mid 40's. Yesterday and the day before it was in the mid 70's. The weather in New York is nothing like the weather in San Diego. I don't know where the 38 degree low temperature forecast could have come from.


https://google.com/webhp?sourcei...weather+hourly
#43
Old 12-25-2014, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Mangosteen View Post
Today, here in balmy San Diego, its going to be in the mid 60's. Tomorrow morning it will drop into the mid 40's. Yesterday and the day before it was in the mid 70's. The weather in New York is nothing like the weather in San Diego. I don't know where the 38 degree low temperature forecast could have come from.


https://google.com/webhp?sourcei...weather+hourly
The low temperature at night. On Friday. According to your link, NY City will be three degrees warmer than La Mesa at that time.

Last edited by guizot; 12-25-2014 at 06:58 PM.
#44
Old 12-26-2014, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by guizot View Post
The low temperature at night. On Friday. According to your link, NY City will be three degrees warmer than La Mesa at that time.
In fact, at this moment I'm about to head back to L.A., at a Starbucks in Lemon Grove, CA, (next to San Diego), where it's 36 degrees, and I just checked on New York City: where it's 40 degrees. (Of course, it's three hours later there, but according to Accuweather, last night it didn't go below 36 in NYC.)

But it it isn't damp, when it gets like this. When the rain comes around here, the temperature usually goes up somewhat.
#45
Old 12-27-2014, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by panache45 View Post
The entire song is about irony. That's why she's so contrarian. She's doing sensible things, contrary to the behavior of the "in" crowd. Sort of like "If these things make me a tramp in your eyes, then so be it, I'm a tramp."
Right, she is sensible, but that doesn't make California cold or damp. Of course, parts of it are, but it isn't much of a symbol for coldness or dampness.
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