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#1
Old 06-21-2001, 05:45 PM
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Their web page has photos of the best and worst. I pretty much agree, but New Mexico does not seem so good to me.

http://nava.org/surveyresults.htm
10 June 2001 Story by Ted Kaye -- ©North American Vexillological Association -- All Rights Reserved

The flag experts of North America have completed their survey of state and provincial flags, identifying the best and worst flags on the continent. NAVA, the North American Vexillological Association, conducted a poll on its website, asking its members and the public their opinions of flag designs in the U.S. and Canada. Vexillology is the study of flags.

Best
1 New Mexico 8.61
2 Texas 8.13
3 Quebec 8.04
4 Maryland 7.97
5 Alaska 7.96
6 Arizona 7.92
7 Puerto Rico 7.66
8 District of Columbia 7.48
9 Marshall Islands 7.19
10 South Carolina 7.16

Worst
63 New Hampshire 3.18
64 Idaho 3.17
65 Wisconsin 3.16
66 Kentucky 3.16
67 Minnesota 3.13
68 South Dakota 3.12
69 Kansas 3.01
70 Montana 3.00
71 Nebraska 2.98
72 Georgia 2.36
#2
Old 06-21-2001, 06:28 PM
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#3
Old 06-22-2001, 12:03 AM
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I love New Mexico's flag. I love Quebec's too. Texas seems kind of cliched to me; I would have placed Quebec second.

Georgia finishing last is a no-brainer. Even if you discount the whole confederate flag thing, it's the worst flag I have ever seen. I cannot believe a sane person designed such a brutally ugly flag. The Kansas flag is awful as well.
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#4
Old 06-22-2001, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RickJay
Texas seems kind of cliched to me[.]
In what way? The flag was adopted as the state flag when Texas became the 28th state in 1845. As with the flag of the United States, the blue stands for loyalty, the white represents strength, and the red is for bravery.

See this site for a lot more information.
#5
Old 06-22-2001, 01:17 AM
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http://fotw.ca/flags/ to see any flag.

I have to admit a bit of a partiality towards the Massachusetts flag, even if it is boring. And the fact that California's says "California Republic" is pretty cool. Damn, though, that Georgia flag is bad.
#6
Old 06-22-2001, 01:25 AM
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I would have placed South Carolina higher up than #10. Actually, South Carolina's flag is probably my favorite of North American flags, and one of my all-time favorites period.

And yes, Georgia's new flag is really, really bad.
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#7
Old 06-22-2001, 01:30 AM
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Ohio is the coolest. No boring rectangles here.
#8
Old 06-22-2001, 01:48 AM
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Makes me wonder, what is the original Mississippi flag? When flags get over-complicated they suck. When they get changed it cheapens the flag. Southern states including confederate flags as part of the design, why not resurrect the pre-civil war flag. The Texas flag has stayed the same. It is simple. It gets confuses with the Chilean flag.

BTW. I have heard that Peru is considering changing their flag because it is too close to the Gay Pride rainbow flag.
#9
Old 06-22-2001, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RickJay
I love New Mexico's flag.
It's a nice flag... but how do you blazon it?

Or, a native American sun symbol gules would seem to be too vague, but Or, the Zia gules means that you have to know what the Zia looks like first... which seems to break the basic emblazon from the blazon aspect of heraldry.

Still, it's a very striking design and a wonderful contrast to the hideous "seal-on-a-bedsheet" designs that seem to be all too common.
#10
Old 06-22-2001, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
BTW. I have heard that Peru is considering changing their flag because it is too close to the Gay Pride rainbow flag.
The flag of Peru doesn't look anything like the Gay Pride flag to me.

By the way, waterj2, that's a really cool site. Definitely going in my bookmarks folder.
#11
Old 06-22-2001, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Road Rash
BTW. I have heard that Peru is considering changing their flag because it is too close to the Gay Pride rainbow flag.
I think it's actually a city in Peru. The gay flag isn't three vertical red-white-red stripes.
#12
Old 06-22-2001, 08:57 AM
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The GA flag sucks dog bollocks. I've seen it. Trust me.

The best state flag would be Virginia's. I enjoy the Roman influence and Latin mottos.
#13
Old 06-22-2001, 11:46 AM
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Give the people of Georgia credit, at least: even we think it's crap. This is what you get when your flag is a political compromise sprung on you by a political inside deal. Don't get me wrong, our old flag had to go (and it should have gone several decades ago), but that thing stinks. Most smart people down here prefer to think of it as a placeholder, something that's only there because we don't have a real flag design yet.
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#14
Old 06-22-2001, 12:00 PM
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Here's a quick link where you can take a gander at all 50 state flags: State Flags

I always thought California's was kinda lame, but wow, some of the flags I've just seen.... there sure are lots of "seal on a bedsheet" flags as Apollyon describes. I think New Mexico and Texas won because, among that collection of "seal on background" flags, they're about the only flags that seem to have simple dignity. I'm cool with the results, since I've spend my entire life living first in New Mexico and currently in Texas.
#15
Old 06-22-2001, 12:16 PM
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[Moderator Hat ON]

Looks like a request for opinions, so off to IMHO.

[Moderator Hat OFF]

I like Alaska's the best. Nice and simple, good colors, and it has a real constellation on it!
#16
Old 06-22-2001, 12:25 PM
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Like much else in this State, the Iowa state flag is just plain pedestrian and dull. The State Flag is a tricolor(blue, white and red from the rise to the fly) with a spread eagle holding a lettered ribbon in its beak. On the ribbon is written, "Our liberties we prize, our rights we will maintain." A real woofer! A couple years ago some State Legislator urged adding more language to the effect of, "furthermore, and in addition, our responsibilities we will uphold." That got nowhere but a local newspaper suggested that we also add, "No parking on left side on odd numbered days."

Now, my birth state, Ohio, has a neat State Flag. It is a swallow tailed affair based on guidons used during the Civil War. Colorful, clean design and different.
#17
Old 06-22-2001, 02:23 PM
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That really is a cool little site. I'm more partial to the Arizona flag myself, 'cos it always had a "People's Republic" kind of tinge to it, but I certainly wouldn't argue with any of the top 10.
#18
Old 06-22-2001, 02:41 PM
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Actually, as I read the article, Texas' flag finished so high because of ballot-box stuffing

"Texas briefly led the results after NAVA president Dave Martucci mentioned the survey in a radio interview on Texas Flag Day. But the three-day flurry of responses (likely from Texans) was eventually diluted by other responses and Texas sank back into second place."

Why on earth couldn't Georgia simply have gone back to one of its pre-'64 flags? Even joining the crowd with a boring old seal-on-a-sheet would have been an improvement...
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#19
Old 06-22-2001, 04:03 PM
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Yay Maryland!

It's nice to see the state I grew up in ranking high on the list. Maryland's flag is a cool combination of the patterns on the seals of the (?)Calvert and Carrol families. The only drawback is that it isn't obvious which side is up. When I lived in Federal Way (Washington) a few years ago, the King County Aquatic Center had all 50 flags on the street out front. I had to complain for about a month straight before they managed to hang the flag right side up (that's with the black and gold where the stars on the US flag go, in case you didn't see).

I like it when a flag is a symbol, no words needed.

-patrick
#20
Old 06-22-2001, 04:03 PM
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The Missouri State Flag is one of those seal on a sheet jobs. Mark Twain once described the seal as two drunken bears holding up a dead and gone keg.
#21
Old 06-22-2001, 04:22 PM
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I'm with MEBuckner, though as a native of South Carolina, I'm ... let's see, "prejudiced" isn't the word I really want to use here ... biased, that's it ... I'm biased.

IMHO, any flag with writing on it is a bad flag, because it makes the flag look stupid unless you're on one particular side of it. I think flags should be designed to look good flying in a stiff wind, not hanging on a wall.

My top 3: South Carolina (less is more -- the only way I'd like it better is if it were just the Ft. Moultrie flag w/o the palmetto tree), Alaska (beautifully elegant and with a story to boot), New Mexico (heritage without hate -- learn something, Klansmen).

My bottom 3: Hawaii (do not adjust your set), Georgia (designed by committee and it shows!), and Kentucky (what's that for, king size pillows?)
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#22
Old 06-22-2001, 05:58 PM
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Woohoo! Second place!
#23
Old 06-23-2001, 01:51 AM
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The new Georgia flag, just SUCKS.

I dont know ONE person who likes it whether they were for or against the original.

Not only is it ugly as hell, but having the United States
flag placed in an inferior position to another flag, I thought was against the Official U.S. flag code.

I would bet the flag WILL be back, just as soon as
the people of Georgia are given the chance to remove
Gov. "Pear-ass" Barnes.
It was one of the most sneaky, underhanded, putsomemoneyinmypocket, political moves in the state.
HELL NO WE AINT FORGETTIN'
#24
Old 06-23-2001, 02:05 AM
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I'm moving to NM and I think their flag is beautiful; sunny like the state. And I used to live in MD, and I always thought it was a striking design.
#25
Old 06-23-2001, 02:07 AM
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Oops, sorry, I forgot to mention that I think Colorado's flag is really seventies looking.
#26
Old 06-23-2001, 02:09 AM
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Ohio.
Definitely Ohio, based on grim school experience.
There was the capital memorization thing...("Pierre! Montpellier! Piedmont!") followed by the equally dreary state flag test.
But Ohio's? It's the only banner type in a sea of rectangles.
Okay, okay, if you're gonna pick nits about aesthetics and symbolism...

Sheesh. So it was an easy "A" in the 3rd grade.

Resume real discussion.

Veb
#27
Old 06-23-2001, 02:14 AM
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I think Maryland's flag is definitely the coolest. I seem to recall a magazine article a while back claiming that among states the Maryland flag was the only "true" flag in terms of using heraldry design principles.
#28
Old 06-23-2001, 02:46 AM
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Y'know, I'm disinclined to listen to the opinions of idiots who think the Marshall Islands are part of the U.S. They've been independent for ten fuckin' years, people!

The worst is the generic seal on dark blue that too many states have. Oklahoma's almost falls into this category, except it's sky blue, instantly lofting it into the unique category along with winners like New Mexico, Texas, California, Hawaii, Maryland, Quebec, and the champion, Ohio.
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#29
Old 06-23-2001, 02:49 AM
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I also like Newfoundland's flag.
#30
Old 06-23-2001, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by don Jaime
...and the champion, Ohio.
See? See? don Jaime said so...(even if I gotta quote him out of context).

Such is glory...Ohio. Iowa. Idaho.

Oh, piffle, one of those places with too many vowels and confused by right angles.

Sidetracked by levity,
Veb
(who wouldn't recognize her (now home)Illinois state flag if stamped on her forehead)
#31
Old 06-23-2001, 03:27 AM
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Since it says "ILLINOIS" on it in huge letters, it couldn't take you more than three guesses.

Incidentally, I think the arms on Maryland's flag were Lord Baltimore's, and DC's flag is George Washington's arms.

Oh, and I do love the New Mexico flag. I was considering getting a tattoo of a zia, but aside from looking really cool, it doesn't really mean anything special to me.
#32
Old 06-23-2001, 03:37 AM
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I agree with waterj2, the fact that the California flag says "California Republic" is a nice echo back to the brief time of the "Bear Republic". I hear that the star in the flag is kind of a "salute" to Texas.

The simplest flag ever flown over California was probably the flag Lt. Juan B. Alvarado flew over Monterey, which was a white flag with a single centered red star in the center.
#33
Old 06-23-2001, 10:49 AM
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Let me sum up the whole point of that website in one sentince;

Flags with circles in them suck.
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#34
Old 06-23-2001, 01:50 PM
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<----California's flag is tops in my book!
#35
Old 06-23-2001, 02:14 PM
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Many years ago there was an article in The Smithsonian magazine on what was wrong with most of the state flags, pretty much expressing the same opinions NAVA did. They also had some suggestions for redesign of some of the "state seal on a bedsheet" flags.

Note that the CA flag was #13 in spite of blatantly violating the rule that a flag shouldn't have text on it. I looked up #11 and #12 (Hawaii and Nova Scotia) and determined that CA was the highest ranked flag that had words on it. If they would remove the "California Republic" and adjust the bear and star a bit so as not to leave a gap in the design where the text was, the flag would have to be in the top 10. I kind of agree with NAVA on avoiding text on flags - it's tacky.

One of the most comprehensive resources of flag information around is the "flags of the World" site. NAVA's link to it is broken. Try this:

http://fotw.vexillum.com/flags

I see that waterj2 posted a link to another mirror for fotw - it has several.
#36
Old 06-23-2001, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by anenquiringmind
The new Georgia flag, just SUCKS.

I dont know ONE person who likes it whether they were for or against the original.

Not only is it ugly as hell, but having the United States
flag placed in an inferior position to another flag, I thought was against the Official U.S. flag code.

I would bet the flag WILL be back, just as soon as
the people of Georgia are given the chance to remove
Gov. "Pear-ass" Barnes.
It was one of the most sneaky, underhanded, putsomemoneyinmypocket, political moves in the state.
HELL NO WE AINT FORGETTIN'
So, you're itching for the chance to put the swastika back on our flag? I'm glad we got rid of that abomination.

Yes, I'm black and yes, I'm Georgian.
#37
Old 06-23-2001, 04:11 PM
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the Georgia "horse"

The truly hideous design for the Georgia state flag reminds me of a definition I once heard relating to the camel, "The camel is the outcome of a horse designed by committee."

Georgia isn't the only state with a crappy design, but you can bet that the ones near the bottom of the list have been tinkered with in recent history by the p.c. committees, blue-ribbon commissions, and touchy-feelie weenies that just can't keep their fingers off of anything they deem "inappropriate".

I'm from Georgia, I'm white, and abhor the "new" change to a design which was fine just the way it was. P.C. be damned.
#38
Old 06-23-2001, 04:24 PM
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Actually, the consensus seems to be that the South Carolina flag is one of the best, and the removal of the Confederate Battle Flag seems to have helped it aesthetically. The problem with Georgia's flag is that it's ugly, not that it's PC. The other low ranked flags are generally ones that are blue with the state seal in the middle.
#39
Old 06-23-2001, 04:52 PM
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I'm going to have to go with Newfoundland as well. I also like the Nova Scotia flag, but I'll admit that I may be a little biased here.
#40
Old 06-23-2001, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Georgia isn't the only state with a crappy design, but you can bet that the ones near the bottom of the list have been tinkered with in recent history by the p.c. committees, blue-ribbon commissions, and touchy-feelie weenies that just can't keep their fingers off of anything they deem "inappropriate".
In fact, the NAVA site suggests flags should never be designed by committee - instead, individuals should design flags, and a committee can choose among alternative designs.

And I think the remarks are appropriate for Georgia - it does look like a committee-designed mess. But most of the losers haven't been tinkered with - they are simply the "seal on bedsheet" bit that resulted from a common pattern followed without much thought.

As a bystander, I'll note from the history at fotw that Georgia only added the stars and bars to the flag in 1956 anyway, and they've had a succession of flags that pretty much sucked:

http://fotw.vexillum.com/flags/us-ga3.html

For the new one, they seem to have gone out of their way to be ugly - WHY must it say "Georgia's History" in the banner containing all the little flags? It's Georgia's flag - I'm not going to think the banner contains a group of flags depicting the important symbols in the history of Outer Mongolia.

BTW, AtomicDog's likening of the stars-and-bars to a swastika got me thinking:

If we are judging flags solely on graphical merit, not on what they represent, surely one of the most visually stunning designs of recent history WAS the flag of the Third Reich - it's really an excellent design by all of the guidelines NAVA suggests. Simple enough for a child to execute from memory, three colors, etc. I wonder how much of the appeal of neo-nazism to certain segments to the population is attributable to that arresting piece of symbolism. Would we have fewer skinheads today if the Nazi's had adopted some sort of fussy bric-a-brac emblem instead?
#41
Old 06-23-2001, 05:12 PM
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Actually, the link I meant to give was this one:

http://fotw.vexillum.com/flags/us-ga.html
#42
Old 06-23-2001, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Actually, the consensus seems to be that the South Carolina flag is one of the best, and the removal of the Confederate Battle Flag seems to have helped it aesthetically.
Just to clarify: the Confederate Battle Flag was never incorporated into the design of South Carolina's flag (the way it has been into Georgia's and Mississippi's flags); rather, the CBF was being flown over the statehouse along with the palmetto-and-crescent state flag.
Quote:
The problem with Georgia's flag is that it's ugly, not that it's PC. The other low ranked flags are generally ones that are blue with the state seal in the middle.
Yeah, I was all for getting rid of Georgia's old flag, but I loathe the new one. (Actually, I have a beef with the Georgia flag in addition to its esthetics, but this thread is already in some danger of being hijacked.)

South Carolina, Alaska, Arizona, and New Mexico are among the best state flags, IMHO. Maryland's is striking, but maybe a little too busy. Among Canadian provinces, I like the flag of Nova Scotia. New Brunswick is also very striking, though I'd hate to have to draw it.
#43
Old 06-23-2001, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
If we are judging flags solely on graphical merit, not on what they represent, surely one of the most visually stunning designs of recent history WAS the flag of the Third Reich - it's really an excellent design by all of the guidelines NAVA suggests. Simple enough for a child to execute from memory, three colors, etc.
This is a good point. Flags aren't only about esthetics. The flag of the U.S.S.R. was also pretty striking, from a graphical point of view. Whereas by NAVA's design standards, I think the U.S. flag might be a bit over-complex. Yet there's no doubt which one I personally prefer.
#44
Old 06-23-2001, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by yabob


BTW, AtomicDog's likening of the stars-and-bars to a swastika got me thinking:

If we are judging flags solely on graphical merit, not on what they represent, surely one of the most visually stunning designs of recent history WAS the flag of the Third Reich - it's really an excellent design by all of the guidelines NAVA suggests. Simple enough for a child to execute from memory, three colors, etc. I wonder how much of the appeal of neo-nazism to certain segments to the population is attributable to that arresting piece of symbolism. Would we have fewer skinheads today if the Nazi's had adopted some sort of fussy bric-a-brac emblem instead?
I had originally thought about mentioning that, but you did a better job than I could. Both the Stars and Bars(Yeah,I know-it's really the St. Andrew's cross, but the other name has attached itself) and the Nazi flag are stunning examples of symbology, but they represent equal abominations to the peoples their regimes subugated.

In my opnion the old Georgia flag had to go, by any means necessary. If it was put up to a referendum, the same thing would have happened that did in Mississippi - and why should it have been, when there was no referendum on the original change?
#45
Old 06-23-2001, 06:09 PM
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I dunno, I grew up in Ohio, and I always felt ripped off by the swallowtail design. All the other states had REAL flags, and ours looked like something you flew off the back of a motorboat.


I'm really partial to South Carolina, which came in tenth. There's something mysterious and rather spooky about it, which is a definite plus in a State Flag.
#46
Old 06-23-2001, 06:37 PM
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Whoops. Sorry, I remembered seeing this flag, and forgot what it was.
#47
Old 06-23-2001, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by yabob
As a bystander, I'll note from the history at fotw that Georgia only added the stars and bars to the flag in 1956 anyway, and they've had a succession of flags that pretty much sucked[/B]
Actually, they removed the Stars and Bars (well, actually only the bars part) from the flag in 1956. The flag on the flag from 1956-2001 is the Confederate battle flag or Southern Cross.
#48
Old 06-23-2001, 08:38 PM
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The new Georgia flag SUCKS. If they just had the seal, that'd be fine, but WTF is with all the other flags on it? I might have expected that from Texas, having lived there for ten years, except they'd never stoop this low.

The old one was bad, but this one is actually WORSE. Why not just have the seal on the blue background? That'd be boring but it wouldn't be the horrible mess it is now.
#49
Old 06-23-2001, 10:40 PM
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Some stats proudly display their banners, while in others ...

Just an observation ... when I was living in New Mexico and Colorado, I noticed the state flags flying just about everywhere. Same thing in Texas too -- the Lone Star was omnipresent.

However, in my home state of New York, the only state flags that one saw flying were usually at state office buildings; they were rarely seen in other places. I think Florida has a pleasant flag design, but like New York, I rarely see the state flag up and flying.

What are the states where the state flag is frequently displayed? How about those where you seldom see it?
#50
Old 06-23-2001, 11:06 PM
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The California flag is flown in a lot of places. It flies over every school that I've ever seen.

We all seem to have a distinct fondness for the bear. It seems so friendly.
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