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#1
Old 06-13-2015, 06:49 PM
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Where do Foodhold, USA products come from?

When I go to the grocery store I almost always check to see where my food comes from. I want to know if my peaches are from California or South Carolina, if my carrots are from Idaho or Iowa, etc. But there are a bunch of products in the produce section that are under the Foodhold, USA umbrella that all say "distributed from Landover, MA" with no indication of where the food was grown, only where it was packaged and distributed. Their website gives no indication that they expect people might ever want to look at it, let alone use it to access useful information about their products.

Is there any way to find out where they buy their produce before they pack it up and ship it off to stores across the country?
#2
Old 06-13-2015, 07:08 PM
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Obviously, the sources of produce are going to vary from day to day and from product to product. I'd recommend asking the produce manager where a particular item is from.

Edited to add, Landover is in Maryland, not Massachusetts.

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 06-13-2015 at 07:10 PM.
#3
Old 06-13-2015, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
Obviously, the sources of produce are going to vary from day to day and from product to product. I'd recommend asking the produce manager where a particular item is from.

Edited to add, Landover is in Maryland, not Massachusetts.
Sorry, got my state abbreviations mixed up.

I did ask the produce manager. They picked up the package, flipped it over, and said, "Looks like this comes from Maryland." They were no help.
#4
Old 06-13-2015, 11:51 PM
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A lot more produce comes from outside the US than most people realize.

Whole foods is good about labeling produce origins other places don't do it much. Bagged stuff will normally have a place listed.
#5
Old 06-14-2015, 04:41 AM
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The OP's question is much more general. A great many pre-packaged grocery products of many different brands give the city of the distributor but not where the product was, y'know, actually produced or grown.

So GFL finding out where your food is really coming from. If you're worried that it might be Chinese produced, protein enhanced with melamine, flavor enhanced with anti-freeze, or simply containing more ground rat than you'd prefer --- Yeah, GFL with that.
#6
Old 06-14-2015, 09:37 AM
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Agreed.

If the OP thinks the location on the package has any connection to where the stuff is grown or processed, then he/she is sadly mistaken. It's simply the city where at least one middleman in the supply chain has at least one office.

Last edited by LSLGuy; 06-14-2015 at 09:37 AM.
#7
Old 06-14-2015, 10:09 AM
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so far not much US food comes from China. But a lot comes from Mexico and Central and South America. 85% of seafood comes from outside the US.
#8
Old 06-14-2015, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Senegoid View Post
The OP's question is much more general. A great many pre-packaged grocery products of many different brands give the city of the distributor but not where the product was, y'know, actually produced or grown.

So GFL finding out where your food is really coming from. If you're worried that it might be Chinese produced, protein enhanced with melamine, flavor enhanced with anti-freeze, or simply containing more ground rat than you'd prefer --- Yeah, GFL with that.
This is really my concern. Beyond that, there are different US states that I am no longer comfortable buying produce from and I'd like to avoid that, so a product saying, "Grown in the U.S.A." doesn't offer much help either.

I guess this means I will be spending a lot more time at the local farmer's markets and possibly putting in my own garden in the yard.
#9
Old 06-14-2015, 01:51 PM
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Answer not forthcoming

GIANT FOOD STORES IGNORES CUSTOMER INQUIRIES ABOUT FOOD FROM CHINA
#10
Old 06-14-2015, 02:05 PM
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The question given in that webpage was overly broad, "Does this product - does any product sold by Giant - Ahold - Foodhold, USA LLC - contain any products which originate in the People's Repubic of China?" Given the global sourcing of food and other products, of course the answer is going to be yes. But if they'd said that, the next question would have been, "Which products?" and that's difficult to answer.

For example, perhaps that children's toy in aisle eight was produced in China or some of the items in the Asian foods aisle were imported from China. Those might be the easy ones to identify. But perhaps that package of Healthy Choice frozen ginger chicken has a tiny amount of imported ginger or soy sauce. If there is a situation in which people who ate a particular product are getting ill, the manufacturer can trace the source of the ingredients based on the production code. But in general, you can't identify the source of every ingredient in every packaged food item.
#11
Old 06-14-2015, 04:12 PM
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My store sells a ton of produce.

Most of the time the case tells where the produce was grown (not the individual bunches or inner packs)

For example right now we have 3lb bags of clementines that say "packaged by (insert company) Lakeland, FL"

The case on the side says "product of Peru, package by (company) Lakeland, FL"
#12
Old 06-14-2015, 05:11 PM
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I ran into new information on packaging and country of origin a few years ago, too. I'll have to dig around for the cite if you want it, I'm going from memory of what I looked up at the time. There was an organic frozen berry medley that was recalled for contamination (of what I don't recall). Turned out one of the types of berries was traced back to Turkey and that was the source of the problem. Looking at the bag, it only had the US distributor listed and I was confused because I remembered something about country of origin was supposed to be listed.

The country of origin labeling, turns out, only applies to single-content packaging. So that bag/can/crate of just strawberries has to have the country it came from listed, but the container of strawberries, raspberries and blueberries does not. What I haven't looked up is whether that single-content rule applies to multiple-source single-content packages. I'm betting that when those peeled baby carrots came from both Florida and Chile, only the distributor needs to be listed.
#13
Old 06-14-2015, 05:14 PM
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many products are required to list where it was made. But I think food is exempt from those laws.
#14
Old 06-14-2015, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbbth View Post
Beyond that, there are different US states that I am no longer comfortable buying produce from and I'd like to avoid that, so a product saying, "Grown in the U.S.A." doesn't offer much help either.
Do you mind expanding on this? What is your reasoning here?
#15
Old 06-14-2015, 05:24 PM
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Some fresh produce that comes in pre-packaged bags (e.g., potatoes and oranges) will be branded by the small family farm where it was grown. These will commonly give the name of the family farm and the city (or region).

But read it carefully. Some of these "small family farms" also import produce and package that. So see if the package mentions anything like that.
#16
Old 06-14-2015, 05:30 PM
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What I also want to know: When a product says "Produce of China" or "Made in China", does that always mean mainland China? Since "there is only one China, and Taiwan is part of China" (the famous Nixon-era "Shanghai Communiqué" formula), what are we supposed to understand about products so labeled?

Are products from "mainland China" always (or usually) labeled "China, PRC"?

Are products from Taiwan always (or usually) labeled "China, ROC"?
#17
Old 06-14-2015, 05:34 PM
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A lot of foods are seasonally sourced from different areas throughout the year. If you can find sweet corn in January, it probably comes from Florida. By September, it's a late planting from Minnesota. If there's a crop failure, a distributor may switch to a supplier in a different area.

Right now there's an avian flu outbreak in the Midwest that's drastically affecting egg supplies.The article mentions that Post, among other manufacturers, is buying eggs from the spot market, which means they may not be getting them from the same source on a day-to-day basis.
#18
Old 06-14-2015, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
Do you mind expanding on this? What is your reasoning here?
California produce makes me uncomfortable. Pennsylvania too, to a lesser extent.
#19
Old 06-15-2015, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by pbbth View Post
California produce makes me uncomfortable. Pennsylvania too, to a lesser extent.
The oil field waste water that is being used for irrigation might be full of toxic contaminants. But how much of that actually gets absorbed into plants? The article only hints at that question and doesn't say much about it. There is a lot of discussion there about testing the water more thoroughly for more contaminants, but nothing is said about doing more research about which contaminants end up in which kinds of plants.
#20
Old 06-15-2015, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Senegoid View Post
The oil field waste water that is being used for irrigation might be full of toxic contaminants. But how much of that actually gets absorbed into plants? The article only hints at that question and doesn't say much about it. There is a lot of discussion there about testing the water more thoroughly for more contaminants, but nothing is said about doing more research about which contaminants end up in which kinds of plants.
That is true, but I personally would like to avoid CA produce while they figure that out. I think that should be my right as a consumer to know what is in the things I'm eating and drinking and if I want to avoid produce that is being watered with poisonous wastewater I think I should be able to do that. Our household also only eats animal products that are Certified Humane because we believe farm animals deserve to be treated decently even if their ulimate destination is our kitchen table. In either instance that is something we as consumers should be allowed to decide for ourselves and the food industry shouldn't be allowed to hide contaminants or animal abuse behind a generic "distributed by" label.
#21
Old 06-15-2015, 08:32 AM
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Your concerns are valid, but the system isn't really set up to meet your needs. I think country of origin is the only thing required in most cases. I think the best answer is to buy local and meet your farmers.
#22
Old 06-15-2015, 10:00 AM
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"Country of origin" isn't much use either. There are lots of legal ways around that, plus of course just doing something illegal waay upstream in the supply chain. Example:

I learned here a couple years ago that under EU law, olive oil can be labeled as originating in the country it was bottled in, regardless of where the olives grew or were converted from fruit to oil. So it's 100% legal, and very common, for olives grown in Turkey to be converted to oil there, sent to Italy in bulk tanks, then bottled and sold as 100% pure Italian olive oil. With a nice markup over the same oil bottled in Turkey and labeled as Turkish.

Under US law products meeting EU origin labeling standards also meet US standards, at least as far as olive oil is concerned. This may also be true for all EU ag products, but I don't know that.

Last edited by LSLGuy; 06-15-2015 at 10:01 AM. Reason: tpying is hrad.
#23
Old 06-15-2015, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
Obviously, the sources of produce are going to vary from day to day and from product to product. I'd recommend asking the produce manager where a particular item is from.

Edited to add, Landover is in Maryland, not Massachusetts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senegoid View Post
The OP's question is much more general. A great many pre-packaged grocery products of many different brands give the city of the distributor but not where the product was, y'know, actually produced or grown....
Good points. A big advantage to this for the distributor is that they can buy from wherever without having to modify the label. The distributor might buy a huge batch of produce from Farmer Bill in Pennsylvania one month, then later find a cheap source from a Guatemalan exporter looking to take advantage of an awesome Guatemalan harvest. Later on, the distributor finds themselves short and goes to the Agro Market and asks for bids from potential suppliers.
#24
Old 06-15-2015, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pbbth View Post
California produce makes me uncomfortable. Pennsylvania too, to a lesser extent.
I'm not saying that your concerns are completely unfounded, but they may be just a bit overblown. According to the article you linked, oil wastewater from California's Kern River oil field is being used to irrigate approximately 45,000 acres of crops. California has somewhere on the order of 8 million acres of farmland, much of it 100 miles or more from Kern County.

That's not to say that wastewater pollution isn't a real thing, and it's certainly possible that the problem is more widespread that that article details. But if your decision to boycott an entire state's agricultural output is based on the fact that approximately one-half of one percent of it's crops may have been treated with polluted water, then you may want to do some more research.
#25
Old 06-15-2015, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Suburban Plankton View Post
I'm not saying that your concerns are completely unfounded, but they may be just a bit overblown. According to the article you linked, oil wastewater from California's Kern River oil field is being used to irrigate approximately 45,000 acres of crops. California has somewhere on the order of 8 million acres of farmland, much of it 100 miles or more from Kern County.

That's not to say that wastewater pollution isn't a real thing, and it's certainly possible that the problem is more widespread that that article details. But if your decision to boycott an entire state's agricultural output is based on the fact that approximately one-half of one percent of it's crops may have been treated with polluted water, then you may want to do some more research.
While I understand what you are saying I have to disagree with your point. As a consumer, your average Jane Doe, the only real power I wield is with my wallet. I'm not the president or the mayor of a big city or a billionaire with the ability to sway lawmakers based on my words. All I can do is look at something and say, "I dislike the way you choose to do business and I no longer wish to support that choice" or "I like the way you do business and I choose to give my money to you in exchange for goods and services." If California (or Pennsylvania or any other state) says that they are cool with polluted wastewater being used in agricultural production in their state and I don't like that I have only two options, spend my money elsewhere or keep giving them my money and bitch about it on the internet. Or I guess I could run for governor of California, but being as I live on the East Coast they might not be willing to let me telecommute for that job so the odds are slim that I could change things in that way.
#26
Old 06-15-2015, 01:49 PM
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Well, we could check their website... oh, wait... they don't seem to have one.


Literally. Dubious.
#27
Old 06-16-2015, 01:34 AM
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Water potentially polluted with chemical with scary-sounding names but no documented adverse effects on humans is being use to irrigate TREES.
Do any of these scary chemicals get into the trees? Don't know. What are the odds that, if they do migrate into the tree roots, they could get into the fruit? Don't know.
What is the exposure? 45,000 out of 8,000,000 acres.
Yes, let's all panic!

This is on the order of destroying Chile's ag exports because a spider was found in a bunch of bananas.
#28
Old 06-16-2015, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by usedtobe View Post
Water potentially polluted with chemical with scary-sounding names but no documented adverse effects on humans is being use to irrigate TREES.
Do any of these scary chemicals get into the trees? Don't know. What are the odds that, if they do migrate into the tree roots, they could get into the fruit? Don't know.
What is the exposure? 45,000 out of 8,000,000 acres.
Yes, let's all panic!

This is on the order of destroying Chile's ag exports because a spider was found in a bunch of bananas.
First, the problem is a lot bigger than simply using some chemically polluted waste water. The process of fracking is causing pollution of ground water and other water sources, occasionally killing off farm animals and causing illness in the people who drink from that water supply. Some of that water also goes to agricultural use. In addition, the chemicals released in blowdowns and the occasional explosion are impacting air and soil quality in addition to the pollution of the water sources used in farming.

But my question isn't really about all of that. If California wants to have fracking and agriculture together and no one has a problem with that then they can totally go with it, but I should have a right to say that I don't want to buy those goods without being accused of "panicking." Belittling my concerns with, "eh, it is such a small chance of your produce being exposed to that stuff and even if it was, you don't know that it will actually hurt you anyway" doesn't really address the fact that I can't go into a store and know where that particular food item came from, whether I want to know because I'm concerned about pollutants or because of abuse of migrant farm workers or because of an industry operating a water-heavy industry in a desert state in the middle of a drought or any other reason.
#29
Old 06-16-2015, 06:06 PM
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I thought we were talking about food safety.

You now want to throw in fracking.

You lose a bunch of points.
#30
Old 06-16-2015, 07:23 PM
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The short answer to the OP's concern is that today the laws of the US do not require that suppliers provide that level of detail. If enough people who share the OP's concerns complain loud enough to their Congresscritters then maybe relevant law changes will happen. I wouldn't hold my breath, as producer interests rule and most consumers care about cheapness as their first, second, and third level concerns, with nutritional quality or chemical-freeness about #37 on their list of worries.

Rest assured that cradle to grave tracking of all inputs to all ag products sourced all over the world would be an expensive overhead addition to the price of food.

Until such time as the laws change the best course of action is to buy only from local small suppliers where one can personally meet the management and determine if their standards meet your own and if they are trustworthy.
#31
Old 06-16-2015, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by usedtobe View Post
I thought we were talking about food safety.

You now want to throw in fracking.

You lose a bunch of points.
You don't read for detail.

You lose a bunch of points.
#32
Old 06-17-2015, 10:43 AM
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Look, pbbth, as Telemark pointed out in #21, the validity of your concerns is irrelevant (and a total hijack of this thread - whether or not fracking etc. should be a food safety issue is way outside the scope of the OP) since you want the national and global food supply regulations to do something they're completely not designed for.

As others are saying, if you want to avoid entire states for your sources (thus making the "USA" label or designation not sufficient) and are committed to humane animal practices, your only real valid option at this point in this country is to eat very, very local: going to farmer's markets, ordering direct from the rancher, driving out to the pick-your-own place, etc.

People are getting snarky with you because you're expecting to be able to go to Mego-Lo-Mart and have them be able to label whether or not a berry came from a particular state, etc. and that just ain't happenin' for anybody.
#33
Old 11-09-2016, 06:57 PM
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I Just Called

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbbth View Post
When I go to the grocery store I almost always check to see where my food comes from. I want to know if my peaches are from California or South Carolina, if my carrots are from Idaho or Iowa, etc. But there are a bunch of products in the produce section that are under the Foodhold, USA umbrella that all say "distributed from Landover, MA" with no indication of where the food was grown, only where it was packaged and distributed. Their website gives no indication that they expect people might ever want to look at it, let alone use it to access useful information about their products.

Is there any way to find out where they buy their produce before they pack it up and ship it off to stores across the country?

I bought some gala apples today at the supermarket, and when I got home I noticed that it didn't say where they were grown. As a New Englander I can be cavalier about apples, know I shouldn't be. Now I know I won't be again as to where they come from. I usually do a quick spot check, did today, called Foodhold but they were closed. It's important to me that my fruits & vegetables are U.S. grown. From what I know of how fruit is grown and, shall we say, irrigated and treated in Mexico, I don't want to buy anything grown there. I doubt the apples are Mexican but my sense is that if they were grown in the U.S.A. the bag would say so. It doesn't.

Tomorrow I'll try again.
#34
Old 11-09-2016, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by john b. View Post
I bought some gala apples today at the supermarket, and when I got home I noticed that it didn't say where they were grown. As a New Englander I can be cavalier about apples, know I shouldn't be. Now I know I won't be again as to where they come from. I usually do a quick spot check, did today, called Foodhold but they were closed. It's important to me that my fruits & vegetables are U.S. grown. From what I know of how fruit is grown and, shall we say, irrigated and treated in Mexico, I don't want to buy anything grown there. I doubt the apples are Mexican but my sense is that if they were grown in the U.S.A. the bag would say so. It doesn't.

Tomorrow I'll try again.
Considering the enormous sums the US gov't has paid US apple growers to export their crops it's much more likely that a person in Mexico will pick up an American-grown apple at their market.

I'm glad you posted, I've had an interesting time reading about the apple industry in Mexico; as a fruit tree enthusiast I'm always interested to learn how trees are irrigated and fruit are treated in other places (I'm in the high desert, practically).
#35
Old 11-09-2016, 11:21 PM
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Here in Colorado the local farmer's market sells lots of stuff packaged and shipped in from other states. Hardly "local grown." Some is, lots isn't.
#36
Old 11-10-2016, 01:03 AM
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Thanks for both replies. That sounds right about Mexico.

Thinking on this makes me (okay, OT) wistful: when I was growing up and throughout my youth, into my early thirties I was a loyal consumer of Maine potatoes. The state was known for its potatoes back then, and while they were tough to peel and often dirty my attitude was WTF, it's good for the local economy. I'm like that.

Then, as time went by the Maine potatoes (mostly grown in Aroostook county) got worse; dirtier, increasingly difficult to peel, often with black spots inside, needing hollowing out to get the good (i.e. white) stuff. Not so good. Then, when I bought a bag of west coast potatoes, on a whim, and I can't remember whether they were Oregon or Idaho, as the saying goes, you could have knocked me over with a feather. Best potatoes I'd ever tasted, and the easiest to peel by far.

It was like I'd never tasted a real potato till then. And they were clean, or almost clean, near spotless, compared to the mangy spuds they bring down from Maine that look like tumors; irregular in shape, ugly, unclean looking. This is one of those things I hate to admit, but as the sort of person who likes to "buy local" this was a sea change for me. Sometimes you gotta go with quality over loyalty, especially when it's like ten squared (whatever).



Anywhoo, a nice relief from Donald Trump here, and in a strange way somewhat relevant to his "message", such as it was, which is that Americans have to start making things, good things, again. We need to produce. I agree, even as I didn't vote for the guy. Well, with food we're already tops, but even at the regional level it's worth pondering.

Last edited by john b.; 11-10-2016 at 01:04 AM.
#37
Old 11-10-2016, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
so far not much US food comes from China. But a lot comes from Mexico and Central and South America. 85% of seafood comes from outside the US.
A while back, a local grocery store had salmon in their fish case labeled as "Caught in Alaska, Processed in China." They had to stop stocking it because people refused to buy it.
#38
Old 11-10-2016, 10:58 AM
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People have this weird idea that words on food packages have the same definition they read in the dictionary. Words like 'fresh', 'new', 'local', 'low' (in the sense of calories or sugar), bigger, better'... I could go on. Oh - another favourite these days - 'traditional'.

UK supermarkets, and I imagine American ones too, sell a lot of pre-packaged produce in bags labelled "Orchard Farm" or some such attractively rural name. There is, of course, no such place and the contents come from wherever they can source them from cheaply. As for origins - we have the same rule here, where the origin is the place the product was last processed, so Albanian beef (which might actually be horse) can be magically transformed into British beefburgers.

Last edited by bob++; 11-10-2016 at 10:58 AM.
#39
Old 11-10-2016, 02:56 PM
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I just called Foodhold and they were quite gracious, told me that the apples I bought were indeed American grown; and when I asked if that was true for their apples generally they replied yes.

At the end of the call I suggested that they label all their American grown products and they agreed.
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