Thread Tools
Old 09-20-2015, 06:34 PM
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: CentralArkansas
Posts: 22,703
Have any car manufacturers included automatic turn signals on their cars?

Brake lights come on when you press the brake pedal. Why don't turn signals activate when the steering wheel is turned significantly?

It might have been difficult to detect mechanically. But couldn't computer sensors easily detect a significant turn of the wheels and activate turn signals?

Have any car manufacturers included automatic turn signals on their cars?

I've observed that one of the most ignored ignored traffic laws is the turn signal. Rarely do I see them used for lane changes. I see them used more often at intersection turns. Maybe 6 out of 10 cars?

Last edited by aceplace57; 09-20-2015 at 06:38 PM.
Old 09-20-2015, 06:37 PM
Charter Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Riding my handcycle
Posts: 32,676
You want the turn signals to activate before the turn/lane change, not during.
Old 09-20-2015, 06:43 PM
Charter Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 28,186
^^^That ^^^

If they ever develop an AI that reads my mind and KNOWS where I'm going to turn, I'm not gonn want the car.
Old 09-20-2015, 06:45 PM
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: CentralArkansas
Posts: 22,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by running coach View Post
You want the turn signals to activate before the turn/lane change, not during.
yes, that is the law. Theres a minimum number of feet to signal before the turn. It probably varies state by state.

I see a lot of cars turning without a signal. A late turn signal (activated automatically) would be better than none at all.

Last edited by aceplace57; 09-20-2015 at 06:47 PM.
Old 09-20-2015, 06:47 PM
Charter Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 22,062
I would bet even fewer people would use them then. "Ah, let the car do it. I don't want to move my fingers."
Old 09-20-2015, 06:47 PM
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Worcestershire UK
Posts: 5,549
The car has satnav (gps) and knows where I am going. It should damn well anticipate the turns.
Old 09-20-2015, 06:49 PM
Charter Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Riding my handcycle
Posts: 32,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
yes, that is the law. Theres a minimum number of feet to signal before the turn. It probably varies state by state.

I see a lot of cars turning without a signal. A late turn signal (activated automatically) would be better than none at all.
By the time the signal activates, you can see the car moving.

ETA: the whole point of the signal is to inform other drivers of what you're planning, not what you're already doing.

Last edited by running coach; 09-20-2015 at 06:50 PM.
Old 09-20-2015, 06:53 PM
"Superstar"
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Shore of LI
Posts: 18,232
Have any car manufacturers included automatic turn signals on their cars?

This makes no sense. You don't need a turn signal once the car starts turning since the whole car is signaling the turn at that point.

It's the advance notice that the point. Same thing with brake lights- your car doesn't stop instantaneously when you press the brakes. The light us a signal you're beginning to slow.

Last edited by IvoryTowerDenizen; 09-20-2015 at 06:57 PM.
Old 09-20-2015, 06:55 PM
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 1,329
I can see a situation where I'm driving such a car on a road that turns to the left, with a side road connecting with it on the left. And the fellow approaching me sees my left turn signal begin flashing. How does he interpret it?
Old 09-20-2015, 06:57 PM
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by IvoryTowerDenizen View Post
This makes no sense. You don't need a turn signal once the car starts turning since the [Italics]whole car[/Italics] is signaling the turn at that point.

It's the advance notice that the point. Same thing with brake lights- your car doesn't stop instantaneously when you press the brakes. The light us a signal you're beginning to s
Indeed. I believe Mercedes holds a patent on an early brake light activation system that will activate the brake lights before the driver even touches the brake pedal (based on the proximity and closing rate to the car in front and relying on radar info). I don't know if this has been actually implemented into their cars, however.
Old 09-20-2015, 07:04 PM
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: CentralArkansas
Posts: 22,703
Ok, I wasn't sure what new whiz bang gadgets new cars have. I drive a 2000 and a 2014 van and they don't have the new gadgets. Even my Ford E250 2014 van doesn't have the fob to unlock and allow someone to start the car. I still have to use a key. A backup camera is the only modern gadget they included.

Smart Turn signals seemed like a new gadget that might be available.

I had a scary incident last week. Idiot didn't signal. Five cars slamming their brakes. We all just barely avoided a pile up. I was the sixth car and had a little more braking time, but it was close; much too close for comfort.

Last edited by aceplace57; 09-20-2015 at 07:06 PM.
Old 09-20-2015, 08:33 PM
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 14,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
^^^That ^^^

If they ever develop an AI that reads my mind and KNOWS where I'm going to turn, I'm not gonn want the car.
But this is exactly what the self-driving cars will do. You will get in the car and say,
"Car! Mall!"
and it will send the request up to "the cloud", and immediately start subtly altering the traffic flow on the freeway across town so that an opening will be just exactly there for your car when you get there, and it will know every turn on the route. As long as there are other manually driven cars, it will signal each turn exactly the right distance in advance. When the last live-human driver retires or is obsolescent, then signaling (that is, visual signaling with blinking lights anyway) will no longer be necessary.

ETA: If you say "Car! <somewhere>!", the car will also know immediately if there is a road closure or other blockage (bridge out?), and gently say:
"I'm sorry, <your-name-here>, I'm afraid I can't go there."

Last edited by Senegoid; 09-20-2015 at 08:36 PM.
Old 09-20-2015, 08:54 PM
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,411
We have a pit thread because a machine can't understand the owner's speech patterns.

We have a GQ positing a car that knows what you are going to do.
OP envisions it using driver inputs. Everyone else points out the practical limitations of that model.

We come up with a psychic car and/or a 'Cloud' which is omnipotent and omniscient to direct traffic.

Tell me: Can this 'Cloud' also part the Red Sea?

Last edited by usedtobe; 09-20-2015 at 08:55 PM.
Old 09-20-2015, 11:20 PM
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 14,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by usedtobe View Post
We come up with a psychic car and/or a 'Cloud' which is omnipotent and omniscient to direct traffic.
Actually, a friend of mine first envisioned that such a thing was coming, about 35 years ago!

Quote:
Tell me: Can this 'Cloud' also part the Red Sea?
"I'm sorry, usedtobe, I'm afraid I can't do that."
Old 09-21-2015, 03:33 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NE Ohio (the 'burbs)
Posts: 39,413
It'd make more sense (but not much more) for the car to be incapable of turning, unless activated by the turn signal.
Old 09-21-2015, 03:55 AM
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ireland
Posts: 3,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by panache45 View Post
It'd make more sense (but not much more) for the car to be incapable of turning, unless activated by the turn signal.
Good luck trying to take evasive action with that system.
Old 09-21-2015, 08:56 AM
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post

I see a lot of cars turning without a signal. A late turn signal (activated automatically) would be better than none at all.
No it wouldn't.
Old 09-21-2015, 09:41 AM
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,833
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
But couldn't computer sensors easily detect a significant turn of the wheels and activate turn signals?
Some curves would set it off, as would anything you do in a parking lot, and wide right turns would cause it to signal left.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob++ View Post
The car has satnav (gps) and knows where I am going. It should damn well anticipate the turns.
Do you input your destination every time you get in the car?
Old 09-21-2015, 09:57 AM
Member
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Alabama
Posts: 14,001
It's hard to tell visually if a car ahead of you suddenly slows down. Even after it starts to slow down, there is no strong visual cue to alert you. The car just gets bigger. Our eyes aren't very sensitive to that. Which is why cars have brake lights.

When a car is already turning, it will move laterally. Our eyes are sensitive to this. Which is why an "I'm already turning" light is much less useful than the "I'm already slowing down" light. (In addition to all the other reasons already given.)
Old 09-21-2015, 10:18 AM
Guest
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Great White North
Posts: 19,986
Aceplace, how about a car that signals automatically once you move your finger against a stick?
Old 09-21-2015, 10:19 AM
Charter Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Southeast Florida USA
Posts: 21,018
And in fact brake lights would be more useful if they behaved differently under gentle, typical, hard, and max effort braking.



Then following drivers would get valuable info about what their reaction ought to be.



The problem is there'd need to be absolute standardization on the different signals. If each manufacturers' marketing department got to choose which lamps or flash speeds or movement patterns represented each braking level then much chaos would ensue.
__________________
Cynicism is Evil. It provides an excuse to expect nothing but the worst from others while simultaneously excusing all the worst in yourself. It's lazy, selfish, and ignorant all tightly wrapped into a toxic ball of nasty.

Last edited by LSLGuy; 09-21-2015 at 10:20 AM.
Old 09-21-2015, 10:31 AM
Charter Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Riding my handcycle
Posts: 32,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSLGuy View Post
And in fact brake lights would be more useful if they behaved differently under gentle, typical, hard, and max effort braking.



Then following drivers would get valuable info about what their reaction ought to be.



The problem is there'd need to be absolute standardization on the different signals. If each manufacturers' marketing department got to choose which lamps or flash speeds or movement patterns represented each braking level then much chaos would ensue.
Back in the 80s, I had an aftermarket brakelight on my motorcycle that did exactly that.
With increasing braking force, the light would flash faster, brighter and the flashes would be shorter in duration and closer together.

it also adjusted for ambient light levels.
Old 09-21-2015, 11:33 AM
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,833
One you reach a certain age, it is acceptable to turn on the signal when you leave the driveway she leaves it on until you reach the destination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LSLGuy View Post
And in fact brake lights would be more useful if they behaved differently under gentle, typical, hard, and max effort braking.
I've always thought that would be a good idea. Also, if we're asking Santa Clause in this thread, I want a light on the front that says "I'm not turning, I'm going straight" for use at 4 way stop signs.
Old 09-21-2015, 12:56 PM
Charter Member
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 73,392
One possibility I've contemplated is that the car would still allow you to turn without signalling first, but if you did it, it would chime an annoying alarm. You could still take evasive action in an emergency, but drivers would hopefully be trained to use their signals properly. That would probably only come from government regulation, though, because no manufacturer would want to be the only one with that "feature".
Old 09-21-2015, 03:04 PM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 7,459
Also, there are situations where you are turning the wheel without making a turn that would require a signal. Like when you're driving on windy roads.
Old 09-21-2015, 03:11 PM
Charter Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Southeast Florida USA
Posts: 21,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
One possibility I've contemplated is that the car would still allow you to turn without signalling first, but if you did it, it would chime an annoying alarm. You could still take evasive action in an emergency, but drivers would hopefully be trained to use their signals properly. That would probably only come from government regulation, though, because no manufacturer would want to be the only one with that "feature".
Good idea. And if Warner Bros had any input into how it worked, a boxing glove on a pantograph would emerge from the instrument cluster to deliver a stern reminder to the piggish driver.

Last edited by LSLGuy; 09-21-2015 at 03:12 PM.
Old 09-21-2015, 03:17 PM
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vermont
Posts: 9,855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fubaya View Post
Also, if we're asking Santa Clause in this thread
The Sanity Clause says that if your driving is insane, we can lift your license.
Old 09-21-2015, 03:37 PM
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,681
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSLGuy View Post
And in fact brake lights would be more useful if they behaved differently under gentle, typical, hard, and max effort braking.



Then following drivers would get valuable info about what their reaction ought to be.



The problem is there'd need to be absolute standardization on the different signals. If each manufacturers' marketing department got to choose which lamps or flash speeds or movement patterns represented each braking level then much chaos would ensue.
Agree with both points. On the first point, good drivers already deal with this. If you're barreling along at freeway speeds and traffic suddenly comes to a complete stop because of some event up ahead, a good driver briefly turns on the four-ways as a warning to the following traffic. And if I'm coming up on such an event, I tend to brake in rapid bursts if possible to make the brake lights flash.

On the latter point, see the thread about the different meanings of flashing green traffic lights -- I'm astounded that such a discrepancy could exist just because of jurisdictional whims.
Old 09-21-2015, 05:05 PM
ftg ftg is online now
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Not the PNW :-(
Posts: 15,921
Quote:
Originally Posted by suranyi View Post
Also, there are situations where you are turning the wheel without making a turn that would require a signal. Like when you're driving on windy roads.
A common situation for me is when there are turns and an available lane to change lanes into at the same time. E.g., two left turn lanes at an intersection onto a four lane road. If you are in the rightmost turn lane and making the turn, having the turn signal come on during the turn might cause drivers to think you are about to switch to the left lane when you are not. While if the signal was on before the turn they might think that was just the original turn and nothing more.

Another ambiguous situation is an exit-only ramp that goes right. No need to signal. But if your signal comes on it might suggest you are having a problem and need to move onto the shoulder.

Automatic signals would seem to merely increase the number of these unclear situations.
Old 09-21-2015, 05:39 PM
Guest
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 67,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by dofe View Post
Indeed. I believe Mercedes holds a patent on an early brake light activation system that will activate the brake lights before the driver even touches the brake pedal (based on the proximity and closing rate to the car in front and relying on radar info). I don't know if this has been actually implemented into their cars, however.
There's more to it than that. They have radar-guided cruise control that will actually brake the car for you. The early brake warning system is available on non-US models.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSLGuy View Post
And in fact brake lights would be more useful if they behaved differently under gentle, typical, hard, and max effort braking.
Mercedes' S-Class (and now, the E-Class I think) flash their brakelights under heavy braking, and signal deceleration before the driver touches the pedal. Unfortunately, the NHTSA hasn't approved them for the US market.
Old 09-21-2015, 06:13 PM
Guest
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Great White North
Posts: 19,986
There's something to be said for giving drivers something to do occasionally (slight bend in the road, signal a lane change, etc.) simply to help them avoid drifting off into zombie land.
Old 09-21-2015, 08:10 PM
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,411
Driver's Ed, 1966:

WATCH THE FRONT WHEEL

It will be your first indication that the car is turning.

No 'cloud' or supernatural being required.

(insert 'jeeze' emoticon here)
Old 09-21-2015, 10:37 PM
Charter Member
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tysons Corner, VA, USA
Posts: 11,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by running coach View Post
...the whole point of the signal is to inform other drivers of what you're planning, not what you're already doing.
Please come to Washington, D.C., and tell that to all the drivers here.
Old 09-22-2015, 02:52 AM
Guest
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 14,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by usedtobe View Post
Driver's Ed, 1966:

WATCH THE FRONT WHEEL

It will be your first indication that the car is turning.

No 'cloud' or supernatural being required.

(insert 'jeeze' emoticon here)
Yeah, but student drivers in those days weren't taught to drive with the Common Core Driving Curriculum.
Old 09-22-2015, 05:20 AM
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,144
Upcoming cars will have automatic lane changing--you tap the signal, and the car uses its cameras, radar, and ultrasonics to determine when it's safe to change lanes, and then does so. Makes it easier and safer all around, and guarantees that the signal will be used properly. It's a small first step toward truly autonomous cars.
Old 09-22-2015, 10:36 AM
Charter Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Southeast Florida USA
Posts: 21,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by usedtobe View Post
Driver's Ed, 1966:

WATCH THE FRONT WHEEL

It will be your first indication that the car is turning.

No 'cloud' or supernatural being required.

(insert 'jeeze' emoticon here)
And it was pitifully stupid advice then and is even worse today. The time you need to know somebody is thinking of turning is a few hundred feet before they do so, not a millisecond before their car changes course.

Last edited by LSLGuy; 09-22-2015 at 10:37 AM.
Old 09-22-2015, 11:02 AM
Guest
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 67,213
The car will change course contemporaneously with any noticeable change in the wheel angle, so you don't even get a millisecond.
Old 09-22-2015, 11:49 AM
Charter Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Southeast Florida USA
Posts: 21,018
Agreed.

The only way that advice makes sense is if you see a car stopped but with wheels cocked. That's a clue that when it does move at some indeterminate time in the future it'll probably be turning in the direction the wheels point. Unless the driver has dropped into reverse, in which case it'll still turn the way you expect, but not how you expect.
Old 09-22-2015, 07:05 PM
Charter Member
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tysons Corner, VA, USA
Posts: 11,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSLGuy View Post
And it was pitifully stupid advice then and is even worse today. The time you need to know somebody is thinking of turning is a few hundred feet before they do so, not a millisecond before their car changes course.
Agree. If your brake lights come on before your turn signal, you're doing it wrong.
Old 09-22-2015, 09:13 PM
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,411
Short of telepathy, how am I to know when the idiot is going to turn?

Yes, a blinking light a few seconds before the turn would be nice, and the 'we'll all be saved by the cloud' is a guaranteed post in any thread re driving.

But, for now, how else are you going to know the idiot is going to turn?
Old 09-22-2015, 10:10 PM
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Virginia Beach, Virginia
Posts: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
Brake lights come on when you press the brake pedal. Why don't turn signals activate when the steering wheel is turned significantly?
Because that isn't when you are supposed to turn on your turn signal?

When making a turn at an intersection, you are supposed to turn on your signal as you approach. (When and where I took my test, it was 8 seconds before turning.) Ditto for lane changes: it is supposed to signal your intent to change lanes, not that you have already begun doing so.
Also, the system you describe would often be activated by curves, so in addition to not coming on when it is supposed to, it will come on when it isn't supposed to.

That, in a nutshell, is why nobody has done that.
Old 09-22-2015, 10:17 PM
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Virginia Beach, Virginia
Posts: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by running coach View Post
Back in the 80s, I had an aftermarket brakelight on my motorcycle that did exactly that.
With increasing braking force, the light would flash faster, brighter and the flashes would be shorter in duration and closer together.

it also adjusted for ambient light levels.
Back when all third brake lights were aftermarket accessories, there was one that contained an accelerometer and got brighter under hard braking. I thought that was brilliant.

Another good signal I've seen: many city buses include a yellow light on the back to signal neither the brake nor gas is being pressed. Some include a green light for when the gas is pressed. I often wish cars had those.
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:54 PM.

Copyright © 2017
Best Topics: everclear 200 proof tire spikes distilled water irons dry steering bowsprit figurehead pitch the woo marche slave tchaikovsky religious tithes my ruthschris pulse dialing phones looney tunes chipmunk high sided glover letterman no hippy chick wendy's baked potatoes freezing sliced bread endearments list lifestyle condoms walmart timex repair cost sibling jokes reply all bcc uranium on amazon cut frozen meat pinsky narcissism test pinch me meaning wailing on slave relationship morgan davis wine itself in latin demesne ck2 female jockstrap vickie eng navy hats history welsh stereotypes list funerals are a waste of money round bail of hay baldwin electric organ models how to stop shoes from squeaking on linoleum difference between national and american league baseball bathroom sink stopper stuck closed how to get smoke off walls what is a four course meal can you take naproxen and hydrocodone at the same time straight men in shower 100 dollar bills in a bundle jurassic park ellie sattler remove your own stitches what does brooklyn style pizza look like 25 and never been in a relationship tiny plunger magic trick revealed water well gallons per minute is popular science a reliable source is aleve good for menstrual cramps the world in french best undercover boss moments kelly jean van dyke porn b&h holiday schedule change suntrust debit pin number 6-1x0+2/2 pain on left side of chest after eating how to select all photos from google photos does resume have an accent mark computer science senior projects all in the family house floor plan sterile water vs sodium chloride when do cherry trees produce fruit 8/7 central to mountain time are toilet tanks interchangeable