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#1
Old 11-27-2016, 11:40 AM
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Why are dogs so fucking stupid?

Dog being used in the gender fashion. Male canines are dogs. Females are bitches. Dogs are easy-going, but complete idiots. Bitches are the smart ones. Why?
#2
Old 11-27-2016, 12:05 PM
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To be clear, your argument is that male dogs (the species) are stupider than female dogs? I don't believe that is true. You'll find both male and female dogs used as working dogs. Lassie, if I recall correctly, was famously a male underneath "her" luxurious coat.

If it makes you feel better about whatever is going on in your household today, however, I did find this one study that does point to gender-based differences in dog intelligence in at least one test.

cite

Note that the researchers do not expect that this difference would persist across a range of tests.
#3
Old 11-27-2016, 12:12 PM
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Moderating

Moved from GD to IMHO.

[/moderating]
#4
Old 11-27-2016, 12:16 PM
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No, when Lassie had to be smart she was a gurl. When she had to be pretty she was a boy.
#5
Old 11-27-2016, 12:20 PM
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My dear Lassie Pie was a seriously smart canine, but she warn't much to look at.
#6
Old 11-27-2016, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dropzone View Post
No, when Lassie had to be smart she was a gurl. When she had to be pretty she was a boy.
In reality, the dog that played Lassie was male. So were all of his descendants who continued in the role.
#7
Old 11-27-2016, 12:57 PM
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I think maybe there's more to these posts than meets the eye. Care to share there dropzone ol' buddy?


Most working dogs are pretty smart. Most pet dogs are less so. Gender doesn't have much if anything to do with it.
#8
Old 11-27-2016, 01:00 PM
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You learn something new every day on the internet. I thought dogs were boys and cats were girls. Background characters in Mickey Mouse cartoons, the men are always dogs (dog floppy ears and button noses), and women are often cats, but post-menopausal women become dogs, too -- a biological phenomenon I never tried to analyze.

Last edited by jtur88; 11-27-2016 at 01:03 PM.
#9
Old 11-27-2016, 01:12 PM
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I have cats. Typically, I have 4-5 at a time. So, over the course of the last 4 decades, I have had a lot of cats. Some have been very bright, some less so. I have one right now that is so dim that I honestly believe that he must have some sort of developmental problem.

There is no doubt that intelligence is a spectrum in animals, humans included.

Why does the variation happen? Biology. Sometimes, biology is a cruel mistress.
#10
Old 11-27-2016, 01:23 PM
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The smartest dog I ever owned was a male golden/lab mix. The stupidest, by far, (and I mean seriously brain-dead idiotic) was a female mutt.
#11
Old 11-27-2016, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by LSLGuy View Post
I think maybe there's more to these posts than meets the eye. Care to share there dropzone ol' buddy?
There always is. I'm stuck with him. Aussiedoodle. Smart for a dog, utterly charming, dumb as a rock. The Little Girls will smarten him up
#12
Old 11-27-2016, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Sunny Daze View Post
Lassie, if I recall correctly, was famously a male underneath "her" luxurious coat.
But when the guy thought Lassie said "Come quick! The kids are stuck in the abandoned mine!", I'm pretty sure he misheard, and what Lassie really said was "Bark! Bark!".
#13
Old 11-27-2016, 02:23 PM
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My dog is so fucking stupid it takes him almost an hour to do an "easy" Sudoku!
#14
Old 11-27-2016, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by LSLGuy View Post
Most working dogs are pretty smart. Most pet dogs are less so. Gender doesn't have much if anything to do with it.
Well, "lapdog" is a job too. It seems to depend on the type of job that breed was selected for (actually the other way 'round, dogs which were good at that job got assigned to it): some shepherd dogs will try to organize any group that looks organizable while ignoring attempts at making them fetch. Other dogs will respond at any attempt to make them run with a "you and what army, dearie?" look worthy of a dowager duchess (when said dog is a mastiff, you'd need a pretty decent army).

Last edited by Nava; 11-27-2016 at 02:32 PM.
#15
Old 11-27-2016, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by dropzone View Post
Dog being used in the gender fashion. Male canines are dogs. Females are bitches. Dogs are easy-going, but complete idiots. Bitches are the smart ones. Why?
Confirmation bias?

I grew up on a farm with working dogs, border collies, and I never noticed any difference between dogs based on gender, certainly intelligence varied noticably but that had nothing to do with whether or not they had anything other than a tail between their legs.
#16
Old 11-27-2016, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
...I thought dogs were boys and cats were girls...
I though this too when I was a kid. I'm pretty much ok now with dogs being either, but cats being boys still confuses me.
#17
Old 11-27-2016, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dropzone View Post
Dog being used in the gender fashion. Male canines are dogs. Females are bitches. Dogs are easy-going, but complete idiots. Bitches are the smart ones. Why?
Animals don't have gender. You mean sex.
#18
Old 11-27-2016, 04:37 PM
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Never noticed a difference based on gender, either. Our current dog (female lab/border collie mix) is smarter than some people I know, but there's an equally intelligent male border collie at the dog park we go to, so... YMMV.
#19
Old 11-27-2016, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by araminty View Post
Animals don't have gender. You mean sex.
Gender and sex are often used interchangeably for animals.

To the extent a distinction is drawn, male and female dogs certainly have distinct behaviors and presumably mental states (gender) as well as biological sex.

It's an interesting question whether dog gender and dog sex are always concordant. I'm not aware of any extensive formal research, but google "transgender animals" for some interesting anecdotes.

Last edited by Riemann; 11-27-2016 at 04:45 PM.
#20
Old 11-28-2016, 07:22 AM
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I have had mostly female dogs. They included our smartest dog (mainly manifested as a talent for getting into the refrigerator and garbage) and our dumbest (who could not find her way back to the house from the front yard).

I reject the idea that service dogs are the smartest. The difference is that they're highly trained and motivated.
#21
Old 11-28-2016, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Jackmannii View Post

I reject the idea that service dogs are the smartest. The difference is that they're highly trained and motivated.
People tend to equate "eager to engage/to please/to abuse their environment until it amuses them" with intelligence, in dogs, and that's not necessarily a bad correlation. Working dogs will have that temperament regardless of whether or not they are highly trained (one of the reasons why border collies generally do not make calm, trouble-free house pets). What's the point of having intelligence if you aren't able to use it in some way?
#22
Old 11-28-2016, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Gatopescado View Post
My dog is so fucking stupid it takes him almost an hour to do an "easy" Sudoku!
I thought mine was really smart, until I noticed he moves his lips when he reads.
#23
Old 11-28-2016, 08:36 AM
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My dog had a toe bitten off, now she only understands base-9 math. Idiot.

Last edited by JohnT; 11-28-2016 at 08:36 AM.
#24
Old 11-28-2016, 08:57 AM
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Could it be about how they are raised and trained? How much effect does human-training-dogs have on the humans' perception of dog intelligence? Is it nature or nurture?
#25
Old 11-28-2016, 09:07 AM
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Mine never remembers to put gas in the car after he borrows it.

Stupid mutt.
#26
Old 11-28-2016, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by TokyoBayer View Post
Mine never remembers to put gas in the car after he borrows it.

Stupid mutt.
That's not stupid. He has you trained to fill it.
#27
Old 11-28-2016, 11:27 AM
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And he bogarts your food. Who's smart and who's not?
#28
Old 11-28-2016, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Waxwinged View Post
People tend to equate "eager to engage/to please/to abuse their environment until it amuses them" with intelligence, in dogs, and that's not necessarily a bad correlation.
Yeah, a few years ago a study claiming to rank dog breeds by intelligence made the rounds. Independent breeds (livestock guardian dogs) watchdog types, and so on got rated low. It turned out that the study defined "intelligence" as "willing and able to follow human instructions." The livestock guardian breeds are expected to deal with a variety of situations WITHOUT seeking human ratification of their decisions. It was soon realized that the entire ranking was based on simple-minded assumptions, and not a true measure of intelligence.

Similarly, some studies have claimed wolves are smarter than dogs because wolves will solve puzzles to get food, whereas many dogs simply implore a human to open the puzzle and give them the food. Never mind that a human is an excellent tool for opening puzzles and obtaining food.

Nobody called Julius Caesar stupid for using humans to do his bidding. "Hell, why did he use the 10th Legion to subdue Gaul? He could have used a stick!"
#29
Old 11-28-2016, 01:17 PM
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We've had a male and female dog. The male was remarkably clever in devising schemes to steal food. The female isn't, but it seems partly personality: she really wants to be a good girl and not spend her mental energy figuring out how to be a naughty girl. And her ability to read people is pretty outstanding even for a dog, to know who is feeling down and needs some clown-dog entertainment, who wants to play roughly or nicely (as a 'pit bull' type it's a good thing she knows who doesn't want bitey play), if strangers want nothing to do with her (she reciprocates and acts like they aren't there). The male OTOH had some form of canine Asperger syndrome we joke, one of his nicknames was 'rain dog'. He was a hound. Maybe it's partly type/breed related. I doubt it's sex related. Probably mostly just two different individuals.
#30
Old 11-28-2016, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
It was soon realized that the entire ranking was based on simple-minded assumptions, and not a true measure of intelligence.
Gardner's theory of multiple intelligence has been around for quite some time for humans, too. Not having satisfactory marks in one aspect of it still makes an animal/human dim.

I do think that comparative animal intelligence is a murky field, riddled with assumptions and speculations. Ability to judge dogs by their performance under command is admittedly a very basic test, but what's the alternative?

As for comparing wolves and dogs.. that's a bit like comparing tangerines to grapefruits. Kind of pointless.
#31
Old 11-28-2016, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
Yeah, a few years ago a study claiming to rank dog breeds by intelligence made the rounds. Independent breeds (livestock guardian dogs) watchdog types, and so on got rated low. It turned out that the study defined "intelligence" as "willing and able to follow human instructions." The livestock guardian breeds are expected to deal with a variety of situations WITHOUT seeking human ratification of their decisions. It was soon realized that the entire ranking was based on simple-minded assumptions, and not a true measure of intelligence.

Similarly, some studies have claimed wolves are smarter than dogs because wolves will solve puzzles to get food, whereas many dogs simply implore a human to open the puzzle and give them the food. Never mind that a human is an excellent tool for opening puzzles and obtaining food.

Nobody called Julius Caesar stupid for using humans to do his bidding. "Hell, why did he use the 10th Legion to subdue Gaul? He could have used a stick!"
I think there is a lot to what you say. In my limited empirical study (my one dog and my son's bitch) I am confounded as to what is "intelligence" in a canine. My study showed that my dog spent 95% of his time trying to convince you he was stupid. Then he would do something that showed he wasn't. He had it figured out. The bitch will obey commands and show uncanny "intelligence". She will fetch until she drops from exhaustion. I tried to get my dog to fetch. He ran out and brought the ball back to me. Good doggie! I threw it out again, he brought it half way back and peed on it.

I'm not sure which is the "smarter" canine.
#32
Old 11-28-2016, 10:45 PM
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A serious reply: I have 2 of each, all the same breed. Weiner dogs. They all seem equally smart to me, except the Alpha male knows all the dirt roads around the area and leads the pack where we need to go while running. They all know multiple commands and respond to cues. No "formal" training. Good dogs.

My wife says that Trixie is a dummy, but she's just jealous, 'cause Trixie is prettier. Best lookin' dog I've ever seen. If I knew how to link pictures, she would crash this site!
#33
Old 11-28-2016, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
That's not stupid. He has you trained to fill it.
OK dammit. I'm making him do his own taxes next year.
#34
Old 12-01-2016, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You learn something new every day on the internet. I thought dogs were boys
This is true. That's why dogs impregnate each other through the anus and birth the puppies out of the anus.
#35
Old 12-01-2016, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by cochrane View Post
In reality, the dog that played Lassie was male. So were all of his descendants who continued in the role.
I nominate myself for so fucking stupid. I assumed that Lassie the character was a boy dog and remembered the trivia as being "he" was played by a girl dog.

My sense (echoed above) that all dogs are boys (and all cats are girls) clearly completely eclipsed the idea that "lassie" refers to a female.

#36
Old 12-02-2016, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Gatopescado View Post
A serious reply: I have 2 of each, all the same breed. Weiner dogs. They all seem equally smart to me, except the Alpha male knows all the dirt roads around the area and leads the pack where we need to go while running. They all know multiple commands and respond to cues. No "formal" training. Good dogs.

My wife says that Trixie is a dummy, but she's just jealous, 'cause Trixie is prettier. Best lookin' dog I've ever seen. If I knew how to link pictures, she would crash this site!
YOU NEED TO LEARN ALREADY, GODDAMMIT!!!!
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