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#51
Old 01-03-2018, 02:01 AM
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This is enlightening. I've always thought it was a universal truth that "small" meant nothing higher than a ten (no face card involved) and "baby" meant playing an ace low was required.
#52
Old 01-03-2018, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
In Texas Hold'em each player gets two hole cards, then there are five community cards (BOARD) dealt to the centre of the table that all players share. The first three cards in the community are the FLOP. The fourth card is the TURN, the fifth card is the RIVER.

The NUTS is the best possible hand, one that cannot be beaten. It will depend on the BOARD. If there are three suited cards and no pairs in the community, the nuts would be an ace flush. If there's a pair in the community, the nuts would be a full house.

So, the rule says that if you have the best possible hand when all community cards are dealt, you must raise the bet.
Thanks.
#53
Old 01-03-2018, 09:02 AM
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Particularly in big buy-in tournaments many players often “have a piece” of each other – some may simply be an agreement to give some percentage of their winnings to the other player; this helps to cut down the luck factor – some may be “sponsored” by another player paying some or all of their entry fee – sometimes a group, say of five players, may agree to pool all winnings and split them five ways.

In all such cases it is to the benefit of the involved players to eliminate others not in the “corporation” while taking as few chips as possible from those in the group.

I agree that ‘soft playing’ is a more appropriate term than ‘slow playing’ for this behavior. It is pretty common in cash games where friends or spouses soft play each other when no else is left in the hand and doesn’t have any effect on others in the game but it does have an effect on tournament standings where each player’s chance to win is directly correlated to the number of chips they have.

Poker tip of the day from an old pro regarding small straights: When playing 7 Card Stud, don’t draw to any straight that will contain an 8. You’re not gonna make most of those straights, some of the straights you do make are gonna lose to higher straights, and you’re more likely gonna make a pair or two. Two pair is the most common winning hand and if you are playing high cards your Kings Up is much more likely to win the pot than Nines Up.
#54
Old 01-03-2018, 04:35 PM
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Why an 8 Turble. I would think 8 9 T J Q would be a good straight.
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Last edited by Saint Cad; 01-03-2018 at 04:38 PM.
#55
Old 01-03-2018, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
The NUTS is the best possible hand, one that cannot be beaten. It will depend on the BOARD. If there are three suited cards and no pairs in the community, the nuts would be an ace flush.
More precisely, the nuts would be a hand that contains two cards of that suit, one of which is the highest denomination outstanding - yes?

Quote:
If there's a pair in the community, the nuts would be a full house.
But only the highest possible one, right?
#56
Old 01-03-2018, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xema View Post
More precisely, the nuts would be a hand that contains two cards of that suit, one of which is the highest denomination outstanding - yes?


But only the highest possible one, right?
With a pair on the board the nuts would be four-of-a-kind not a full house.
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#57
Old 01-03-2018, 04:59 PM
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Good point. But if you have the third card, and a pair, your opponent can't have quads, so it's still unbeatable.

Last edited by Peter Morris; 01-03-2018 at 05:03 PM.
#58
Old 01-03-2018, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
Good point. But if you have the third card, and a pair, your opponent can't have quads, so it's still unbeatable.
Unless as Xema mentioned there is any other card on the board higher than the pair - for example if the board is 559 and you hold a 9 and a 5. In that case a player can't hold 55 for quads, but if they are holding 99 they would still have the higher full house. Chances are good you will lose a lot on a hand like that when it happens, and it does.
#59
Old 01-03-2018, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
Why an 8 Turble. I would think 8 9 T J Q would be a good straight.
I'm not sure of the reason for this in 7 card stud either but a well known texas holdem tip is that if you hold Jack Ten, any straight that the board could complete will always be the highest possible. Whether the board has 789 or 89Q or 9QK or QKA if you make your straight it will always be the top straight. Those are the only two cards in the deck where that is the case. (other than AK but in that case you can only ever make one straight anyway). I suspect the thing about 8's in Stud is something similar, except meaning it has lots of ways to be the lower straight, although I can't at the moment think of how.
#60
Old 01-03-2018, 06:27 PM
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Why wouldn't the same also be true for JQ or QK?
#61
Old 01-03-2018, 07:19 PM
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If you have TJ and the board is 789TJ then any queen or a QK will beat you.
#62
Old 01-03-2018, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
I thought slow playing was when you have the nuts, but make a small bet or check. The object is to sucker your opponent into raising, so you can re-raise.
You're correct. I meant to type SOFT playing.
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#63
Old 01-03-2018, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
Why an 8 Turble. I would think 8 9 T J Q would be a good straight.
You should play that way because thatís how the good Stud players play. Big cards are better than small cards.

If we both make a pair on 4th street you are far behind. If we both hit a straight card on 4th street I have four cards to pair that will all be better than any pair you can make (note that I have a better kicker if we both make a pair of nines or tens.) If we both make our straight, you lose. If we both end with a pair or two pair, you lose. If we both miss everything and donít improve our hands at all, you lose.

You have to get lucky to win Ė I donít; I win when I get lucky AND I win when the luck is even because big cards beat small cards.
#64
Old 01-03-2018, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludovic View Post
If you have TJ and the board is 789TJ then any queen or a QK will beat you.
It only applies to straights where you use both hole cards to make the straight and the final board could allow for several different straights, also using both hole cards. If a player can use 1 card to make a straight or the board itself forms a straight, the ten jack thing is irrelevant.

I learned this tip many years ago from a book either by Doyle Brunson or Amarillo Slim. I can't find the original reference after a bit of searching but it is mentioned here.

Quote:
Another key thing about jack ten in regard to straights is that every single two card straight ('two card' simply means that you are using both the jack and the ten to make the straight) possible with jack ten will be the nuts. This means that when you do hit big with it you will often know that you have the best possible hand and can get your money in accordingly.
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Why wouldn't the same also be true for JQ or QK?
I was only remembering one part of the uniqueness of the J 10 hand with regard to straights. They are the only two cards that can be part of four different straights and make the highest straight in each case. KQ can only be part of two straights and QJ can only be part of three.
#65
Old 01-04-2018, 07:21 AM
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If you have the 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10 of clubs, they call that the Chattanooga Gut Punch and the other players get to punch you in the stomach.
#66
Old 01-04-2018, 08:24 AM
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And you still probably win, because you've got a flush.

Seriously, even if that is a real houserule somewhere, it has basically no effect on the game, because that specific hand would be incredibly rare, so much so that everyone at the table could go their entire lives without ever seeing it.
#67
Old 01-04-2018, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
And you still probably win, because you've got a flush..
Actually, in Texas Hold'em you'd quite likely lose to a better flush. I'd be extremely wary of betting on that hand.
#68
Old 01-04-2018, 09:34 AM
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A ten high flush is a strong hand. I wouldn't want to bet my stack if someone was absolutely slamming the pot or if there were four clubs on the board (and therefore another player needs only one high club to win) but you can't toss a teenaged flush away too easily.

If you make that flush before the river, especially, you should usually bet to win. Don't make it a good call for anyone with one club to draw to another.
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#69
Old 01-04-2018, 12:54 PM
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If poker was simply a game of odds, it would be a good bet. It would lose half the time, but the other half it would win 9x my bet.

In reality, if my opponent is betting with three suited cards in the flop, then I have to consider he's probably got a flush, and likely higher than my 10. I'd have to be cautious about calling the bet.

Last edited by Peter Morris; 01-04-2018 at 12:55 PM.
#70
Old 01-04-2018, 01:46 PM
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I have to admit, I was just kidding and made something up. It would be awesome if it became a thing though
#71
Old 01-04-2018, 01:59 PM
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But it can't become a thing, because it's too rare. I've seen this multiple times, with people trying to invent poker-like games (for fantasy worlds or such): They come up with a bunch of specific named hands, and there's a detailed explanation for the history of each hand and why it's significant, and none of it matters, because nobody ever gets any of those named hands. There's a reason why the poker hands are all based on obvious patterns.
#72
Old 01-04-2018, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
... if my opponent is betting with three suited cards in the flop, then I have to consider he's probably got a flush ...
Perhaps he 'd merely like you to think he has a flush.
#73
Old 01-04-2018, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Morris View Post
Actually, in Texas Hold'em you'd quite likely lose to a better flush. I'd be extremely wary of betting on that hand.
Depends on the character of the better and the size of the pot/stake. On the other hand, in Omaha yes, I never count on anything less than a king high flush barring people who definitively bluff.
#74
Old 01-04-2018, 08:49 PM
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"There are few things that are so unpardonably neglected in our country as poker. The upper class knows very little about it. Now and then you find ambassadors who have sort of a general knowledge of the game, but the ignorance of the people is fearful. Why, I have known clergymen, good men, kind-hearted, liberal, sincere and all that, who did not know the meaning of a flush. It is enough to make one ashamed of the species."

- Mark Twain
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