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#1
Old 12-29-2017, 08:48 PM
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Do Germany and Japan have ww2 movies

I'm watching Dunkirk and am wondering if modern axis nations have ww2 movies.

I wouldn't be surprised if Japan does, but Germany seems like they'd probably not have movies about ww2.
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#2
Old 12-29-2017, 08:55 PM
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Das Boot comes to mind.
#3
Old 12-29-2017, 08:56 PM
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Japan has anime and video games where not only do they win WW2, they're also portrayed as being in the right.
#4
Old 12-29-2017, 08:56 PM
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Well, there's Downfall of course.

I haven't looked at all of these articles or these, but several of them are about World War II.
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#5
Old 12-29-2017, 10:00 PM
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I'm mainly familiar with Japanese movies covering the effects of the war on civilians at home, not the soldiers at war. Among those are the classic animated films Graveyard of Fireflies and Barefoot Gen and the brand new classic In This Corner of the World.

Those three movies show the horror of the war pretty matter-of-factually without explicitly trying to demonize Amierica, but there is a two-part TV movie that I wish I could remember the name of that was laughably over the top. It was aired on some anniversary of the end of WWII (likely the 65th) and I saw a fansubbed version. The story followed multiple people including (doctors at a hospital) as they go about their dramatic, traumatic lives, then in the last half of the last episode the US military tracks down and kills them one by one. Really. A US fighter strafes a train, then breaks off to chase down and shoot the one guy (who had been one of the starring characters) when he got off the train. And in a different location a different plane strafes another character. And in one of the biggest overkills, two characters have just reunited on a beach when a formation of bombers heading to bomb the city drop one of their bombs on top of the couple (who were a good distance from the target area.) They did everything except have the scenes cut to views of the American pilots twirling their pencil mustaches and cackling maniacally.

Here are a couple of lists. Some of the movies I want to track down myself--for example, this one, because I like a few of Yôji Yamada's other movies.
#6
Old 12-29-2017, 10:38 PM
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Germany, Pale Mother covers about ten years from before the war to the allied occupation. Needless to day, it is not a good first date movie.
#7
Old 12-29-2017, 11:02 PM
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When I was in high school, we saw a German movie in which two Jungen grew up between the wars. One followed Hitler, the other married a cute Danish babe and was conscripted into the army. They all survived the war, but the guy who was a Party official was eventually charged with war crimes. His problem was solved when he fell down an elevator shaft, a la Diana Muldaur in LA Law.

I don't remember the name of the movie, but it was pretty good without being depressingly serious.
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#8
Old 12-29-2017, 11:06 PM
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It seems from their movies that Japan didn't learn the same lesson from the war that Germany did. At least some of the people making these movies seem to think Japan was somehow a victim in WWII rather than a particularly vicious aggressor that raped and butchered their way across most of Asia.
#9
Old 12-29-2017, 11:29 PM
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Kon Ichikawa's 1959 film adaptation of shohei Ooka's Fires On the Plain.
#10
Old 12-30-2017, 12:16 AM
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The German film Stalingrad is one of the most brutal and gutwrenching war films I have seen.
#11
Old 12-30-2017, 12:19 AM
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Germany certainly has had war movies, but of course they would be different from those made by the winners, and would reflect the expectations of the time they were made (so, not much appetite for heroics or comic capers for at least 20 years after the war, for example). Also, there'd be a difference between the imperatives governing commercial cinema and public service TV, which has produced a number of serious dramas trying to encompass the experience of the time, rather than battle spectaculars.
#12
Old 12-30-2017, 12:30 AM
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The only Italian-made WW2 movie I can think of is Mediterraneo, which is about the joys of skiving off.
#13
Old 12-30-2017, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Penfeather View Post
The only Italian-made WW2 movie I can think of is Mediterraneo, which is about the joys of skiving off.
Well, there's of course life is Beautiful (La Vita è Bella - 1997). Remember Roberto Beningni? "I Luooove eeevr'bodeeeh!!" Won three Academy Awards

Actually, just last year, the German- Danish production Land of Mine (Under Sandet - 2015) was a big hit in Europe and got nominated for Best movie in a Foreign Language. Very depressing movie.

If we are talking about the actual war, A couple of years back a German TV series about young soldiers during the War, Generation War (Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter - 2013) was all the rage

Last edited by Go_Arachnid_Laser; 12-30-2017 at 01:09 AM.
#14
Old 12-30-2017, 04:56 AM
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Miyazaki's The Wind Rises. It's about the aircraft designer who designed the Japanese 'Zero' planes used in WW2.
#15
Old 12-30-2017, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philliam View Post
Kon Ichikawa's 1959 film adaptation of shohei Ooka's Fires On the Plain.
Didn't that guy also go on to play lead guitar in Loudness?
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#16
Old 12-30-2017, 05:39 AM
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I saw "Die Brücke" a long time ago and liked it a lot. Be warned, it's a bleak, bleak movie. It's about a group of german schoolboys who gets drafted in the last months of the war. With minimal training and some panzerfausts they are ordered to defend the titular bridge. It's on YouTube so you can see for yourself.

https://google.dk/url?sa=t&sourc...N8ZFOD4xbU2nov
#17
Old 12-30-2017, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Didactylos View Post
This link should work:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bIz7x_vWV6Y
#18
Old 12-30-2017, 07:02 AM
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Neither link works.
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#19
Old 12-30-2017, 07:18 AM
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The Marriage of Maria Braun
MacArthur's Children

These are both mainly about the occupation/immediate aftermath of the war.
#20
Old 12-30-2017, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Go_Arachnid_Laser View Post
Actually, just last year, the German- Danish production Land of Mine (Under Sandet -) was a big hit in Europe and got nominated for Best movie in a Foreign Language. Very depressing movie.
Depressing yes, but very good. I recommend it.
#21
Old 12-30-2017, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil View Post
Neither link works.
Huh. Works for me in different browsers. Its in german without subtitles, so may be less useful for most dopers.
#22
Old 12-30-2017, 08:16 AM
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Green Wyvern writes:

> Miyazaki's The Wind Rises. It's about the aircraft designer who designed the Japanese 'Zero' planes used in WW2.

But none of it is actually set during World War II. It starts at the end of World War I and continues until sometime in the mid-1930's. There's a final scene set immediately after World War II. Bizarrely, although the parts of the film concerning the career of the main character Jiro Horikoshi are based on his work as an aircraft designer, much of the personal parts of the film (about his relationship with his wife) have no relationship to his real life. They are taken from a novel by Tatsuo Hori called Nahoko.
#23
Old 12-30-2017, 08:22 AM
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Here's a long list of German World War II films:

http://imdb.com/list/ls020577802/

Here's a website about Japanese World War II films:

https://news.usni.org/2014/04/14/jap...apanese-cinema
#24
Old 12-30-2017, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RikWriter View Post
It seems from their movies that Japan didn't learn the same lesson from the war that Germany did. At least some of the people making these movies seem to think Japan was somehow a victim in WWII rather than a particularly vicious aggressor that raped and butchered their way across most of Asia.
I refer to think it is not the majority of the populace in Japan that thinks this way but a loud minority, who make a lot of movies.
#25
Old 12-30-2017, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post
I refer to think it is not the majority of the populace in Japan that thinks this way but a loud minority, who make a lot of movies.
Hopefully you're right. From what I've read, the public perception of WWII in Japan has begun to change in the last 20-30 years or so, since the Cold War ended and the country has begun to engage more with the rest of Asia.
#26
Old 12-30-2017, 08:51 AM
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/subscribe. I'm familiar with lots of films set in post-war Germany, dealing with the social aftermath, but not films set in wartime.
#27
Old 12-30-2017, 01:32 PM
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One of the ~90's era Godzilla movies features a young version of the king of monsters attacking WWII soldiers.
#28
Old 12-30-2017, 03:53 PM
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The East Germans certainly made World War II films. One of the most famous is 1975's Jakob, der Lügner, which Hollywood remade in 1999 as Jakob the Liar with Robin Williams in the title role.
#29
Old 12-30-2017, 09:49 PM
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One of the ~90's era Godzilla movies features a young version of the king of monsters attacking WWII soldiers.
That seems really strange given how Godzilla in most incarnations is either awakened or created by atomic bombs.
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#30
Old 12-30-2017, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Didactylos View Post
Huh. Works for me in different browsers. Its in german without subtitles, so may be less useful for most dopers.
The video is blocked in the US.
#31
Old 12-30-2017, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RikWriter View Post
Hopefully you're right. From what I've read, the public perception of WWII in Japan has begun to change in the last 20-30 years or so, since the Cold War ended and the country has begun to engage more with the rest of Asia.
Gets a little harder to ignore that China and the two Koreas think they're assholes.
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#32
Old 12-30-2017, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RikWriter View Post
It seems from their movies that Japan didn't learn the same lesson from the war that Germany did. At least some of the people making these movies seem to think Japan was somehow a victim in WWII rather than a particularly vicious aggressor that raped and butchered their way across most of Asia.
Japanese conveniently forget about all that; the civilians who suffered from the US bombings were never political nor responsible for the attacks on other countries; husbands and sons who had to go off to war were innocent of wrong-doing and either come back in one piece or not at all; folks who had to fight on their own home ground, as in Okinawa, were very brave and suffered tragically. I have watched a lot of TV dramas (more than theatrical-release movies) and this is what is portrayed. NHK, the state broadcasting system and biggest program source, is particularly guilty of this.
#33
Old 12-31-2017, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RikWriter View Post
Hopefully you're right. From what I've read, the public perception of WWII in Japan has begun to change in the last 20-30 years or so, since the Cold War ended and the country has begun to engage more with the rest of Asia.
What have you read? I've been in Japan for the last 20 years and I think I have my finger on the pulse.
#34
Old 12-31-2017, 07:48 AM
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What have you read? I've been in Japan for the last 20 years and I think I have my finger on the pulse.
Articles about it in various places, usually written during salient anniversaries of WWII events. Why? Do you think it's inaccurate? Have the Japanese people not changed their view of the war since 1989 or so?
#35
Old 12-31-2017, 08:19 AM
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In Japan in particular, for quite some time there were many films with allusions to WWII.

E.g., the 1964 film Onibaba (recently aired on TCM) is set in the 14th century during a civil war but has overtones that apply to WWII, in particular some ... properties ... of a mask that plays a key role that people see as a reference to the atomic bombings.

While Kurosawa made explicit WWII movies, it's not hard to find people arguing that several of his other films, e.g., Rashomon, had WWII symbolism.
#36
Old 12-31-2017, 09:24 AM
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Not quite the same thing, but Germany also made movies during WWII. Yes, during the height of the war, with shortages everywhere, they took the time and money to make a huge blockbuster movie about the most famous tragic shipwreck in history. Yes, they made Titanic. With a budget of $180M in 2013 dollars, it was the most expensive film of its time. It was, of course, a propaganda film first, showing how the evil capitalists of White Star were responsible for the disaster, while the brave and heroic German first officer fought against them.
#37
Old 12-31-2017, 10:27 AM
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If we're going to talk about German films made during World War II that aren't about the war, let me mention the 1943 The Adventures of Baron Munchausen. It cost about $30 million (U.S.) dollars adjusted for inflation. It's pretty good. It cost so much that spending all that money meant that the Nazis spent that much less on the war, so it probably contributed to them losing it, just in case you think that you're supporting the Nazis by seeing it now. In my opinion, it's not quite as good as the 1988 Terry Gilliam movie of the same name, but I've only seen each of those films once.
#38
Old 12-31-2017, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ftg View Post
In Japan in particular, for quite some time there were many films with allusions to WWII.
I just watched my first few kaiju movies (there was a marathon on some cable channel). The ones I saw from the 1950s and 1960s are totally "about" the war: evil/misguided militarists, the threat from atomic energy (and technology in general), the necessity (and dangers) of pacifism, a mood of resigned helplessness in the face of overwhelming force ...

Not that this is a new observation or anything -- but I was shocked on watching my first kaiju movie how blatant these themes were. Since I didn't ever form a childhood fondness for watching rubber monsters stomp on model trucks, looking for weird thematic elements is what kept me watching past Godzilla/Gojira.
#39
Old 12-31-2017, 03:18 PM
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I took an Interim course in Nazi cinema when I was in college. When talking about propaganda value and high cost, Der große König (1942) was a lavish production that blatantly compared the Prussian king Frederick the Great to Adolf Hitler. Kolberg (1945) was the most expensive film of the Nazi era at eight million RM. It had the second largest extra cast ever (187,000) after Ghandi, 50,000 of whom were actual soldiers seconded to the production at a time when the Reich was being overrun on all fronts. It was supposed to bolster morale at home by presenting the eponymous Napoleonic-era siege as a parallel to the desperate situation Germany was then in.
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#40
Old 12-31-2017, 04:41 PM
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One that hasn't been mentioned from Japan is not actually a movie but a 26-part anime series. It's Zipang, where the plot revolves around a warship (the Mirai) of the Japanese Self Defence Force sent back from around the year 2000 to 1942 and the Battle of Midway.

So at the start, the Mirai sails past the Yamato, the largest ship of the Imperial Japanese Navy, which was sunk in 1945. So the Mrai's crew realise they have been sen back to the middle of WW2, while sailors n the Yamato see a strange warship flying the Japanese naval ensign.

The captain of the Mirai has a moral dilemma. He is in charge of the most powerful warship in the Pacific, and he knows how the war will go. including the impending defeat of his country at the Battle of Midway. However, his navy is allied with the US Navy, ad he believes that in the long term it was best for Japan to be defeated in the war, so he decides to try to keep out of the war, including not intervening at Midway to help the IJN.

The rest of the series involves both the the IJN and the USN trying to find this strange Japanese warship, while the Mira does become involved because it saves a Japanese naval lieutenant from drowning, and shows him the future history in the ship's library.
#41
Old 12-31-2017, 07:18 PM
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Asking if Germany has any WW2 movies is like asking if the US has ever made a movie about Vietnam. But then, Vietnam was ONE of many pivotal points in US history of merely 241 years, but WW2 and all of the surrounding events was THE event in German history, which reaches a bit more back in time. So much of post-war art in Germany, including cinema, dealt with the realization, shame, guilt, processing and the preventing of suppression of that monstrous events.

It immediately started in literature and arts, also some earlier film classics have been made, like the aforementioned "Die Brücke", but in post war Germany up to the middle sixties, probably guilt-laden everday people preferred to get escapism out of the movies instead of confrontation with their ugly past, so mostly German cinema shunned this theme, with some very other notable exceptions like "Des Teufels General".

As I said, German literature didn't have much of these hang-ups, as it catered more to the more educated classes. With the student movement of the middle/late sixties, some of those dams broke, but I think it was the screening of the TV series "Holocaust" in Germany that really inspired many German filmmakers to tackle the time period. Since then many remarkable German movies about WW2 have been made which have already been mentioned here, like "Das Boot", "Stalingrad", "Der Untergang" etc.

Note that the ratio between movie and TV market in Germany tends MUCH more toward TV than in the US for different reasons, so additionally to the movie productions there have been made tons of TV movies, series and documentaries about the times.

The weakness in the US/Vietnam analogy is this: you won't find a German "Rambo" or "Missing In Action" about WW2, but rather exclusively "Apocalypse Now" or "Platoon". There won't be much heroism shown in military actions, but rather in humanitarian acts. The typical hero of a German WW2 will be a kind and upright person, it can even be a Wehrmacht soldier, but not one of those who plows down 200 enemies with one machine gun. Far, VERY far from that.

(I really don't know if those kinds of movies exist, at least none of big budget German productions. But coming back to the literature angle, there was an outlet for those fantasies, the "Landser pulp books)
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#42
Old 12-31-2017, 07:20 PM
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The Tin Drum.
#43
Old 12-31-2017, 07:28 PM
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Missed edit - ninja'ed - post 23.
#44
Old 01-01-2018, 10:20 AM
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That seems really strange given how Godzilla in most incarnations is either awakened or created by atomic bombs.
If memory serves Godzilla is sent back in time and is showing killing US soldiers. There was some controversy at the time. This was during the "Godzilla protector of Japan" stories.
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#45
Old 01-01-2018, 10:45 AM
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In one version, Godzilla is an ordinary dinosaur on a mysterious uncharted Pacific island, who, by attacking an American force, saves a Japanese force from being wiped out. He then gets mutated by atomic radiation into the gigantic monster we know. There were also some evil time-traveling aliens involved, but I don't remember all of the details.
#46
Old 01-02-2018, 12:24 PM
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Big WWII/history movie buff here.

I've seen a number of Japanese-produced films on the subject of WWII. Though I wouldn't say they're revisionist per se, they do tend to simply ignore some of the bigger issues and reasons behind the war and their own wrong doings. Instead, they focus on their own suffering and the consequences. It's kind of like a kid starting a fight he loses and then tattling about the beating he received while failing to mention the circumstances or why he was in a fight in the first place.

Typically, the protagonist will be very patriotic and eager to die for his country. If he is asking others to make sacrifices, he'll be stoic and full of internal regret about it. The Americans aren't really played as the bad guys - just a faceless, mechanized enemy. The war itself is the bad guy. They never mention why they're in the war in the first place or that they started it or that they committed atrocities. If there are any gung-ho pro-war Japanese portrayed, it is never the protagonist, but merely other officers or characters whom the protagonist look down upon.

I've seen:

Japan's Longest Day
Battle of Okinawa
Father of the Kamikaze
Yamato.

They tend to be over-wrought with Japan as the victim.

If we could count American films "Letters from Iwo Jima" and "Tora Tora Tora", each of which were made with Japanese participation and cooperation, we might see a more balanced representation of the Japanese attitudes of the time.

For German films, there are more. As with the Japanese, the protagonist is never a dyed in the wool Nazi or SS man. However, the evil actions of other true Nazis are not avoided or denied.

A few have been mentioned here already - Das Boot, Stalingrad, Die Brücke, Der Untergang . "Hitler Jugend" and "Europa" are also very good. There are also a few decent miniseries "Generation War" and "Dresden" which show the civilian impact without avoiding the reasons for the war in the first place. I'd say the Germans are definitely more intellectually honest about the war that the Japanese.
#47
Old 01-02-2018, 03:27 PM
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Not to completely defend the Japanese, but it is worth noting that there are some large Nationalist organizations within the country who have done things like firebomb teachers and politicians who admit to atrocities during WWII. So even if 90% of the country would be open to accepting what all happened during WWII, it may not be safe for anyone to delve into that realm.
#48
Old 01-02-2018, 05:15 PM
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There is also (I remembered, after my original posts) a live-action movie adaptation of this manga.
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