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#1
Old 05-17-2018, 01:49 PM
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What do you do while your getting a new bath and kitchen?

It's a small condo. I don't have anywhere else to go and I've been told it's an 8-10 week thing.

I can't think of anything to do away from home for 3 months. I wonder if I'll just sell to avoid this. I have never looked into extended hospitality somewhere but I imagine it's a bundle.
#2
Old 05-17-2018, 02:22 PM
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Kitchen is easy: You move the refrigerator and microwave to the living room, and you eat a lot of take out. In our case, we set up a camping stove in the back yard and used that for times when we wanted to cook something hot. We also grilled in the yard a lot. We scheduled the work for summer for this reason. Used a lot of disposable cups, paper plates and flatware. Hand washed pots and pans in the utility sink in the laundry room.

Bathroom is harder: We have two bathrooms, so we staggered the work so we'd always have one working bathroom. It took longer, but was better than moving out for 2 months. If you have only one bathroom, then that won't work. When our entire block lost water pressure for 2 days (drunk driver took out the hydrant on the corner), we went to the local grocery store to use the restroom. I was able to take a shower at work, but that's probably not be an option for most people.
#3
Old 05-17-2018, 02:33 PM
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Yes, an extended stay in a hotel is going to cost a "bundle" as you put it. But so is the renovation of your kitchen and bathroom. You just need to figure the cost of a hotel stay into the budget. And you can check Airbnb or similar services to see if an apartment or house could be rented for weeks at a time for less than an extended stay hotel. Also, extended stay hotels might give you a break if you tell them how long you're going to stay.

And sure, you could just sell your place and avoid the hassle. But then you have to find a new place to live and move all of your stuff. If you like where you live other than the kitchen and bathroom, the renovation might be worth suffering through.
#4
Old 05-17-2018, 03:34 PM
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I've had both done. The rooms aren't completely out of service all that time. As noted, you put a microwave in the living room, wash dishes in the bathroom sink or tub, and eat a lot of take out food. As for the bathroom, you and the contractor work out the exact days it will be completely out of service. If you belong to a gym, you take showers there for a couple of days.

My bathroom was a mess for a couple of weeks, but there was only one night and the next morning I was completely without a toilet. That's the night you stay with a friend, or go to a hotel.
#5
Old 05-17-2018, 03:39 PM
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Your bathroom isn't going to be completely out of service for the entire reno. If it's your only bathroom a decent contractor is going to leave it in a not dangerous state when they leave for the day and can probably have the actual toilet out of commission for only a day or so.

Either get a gym membership close to work/home or quickly become friends with a neighbor.
#6
Old 05-17-2018, 03:44 PM
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8-10 weeks seems a huge amount of time for either a kitchen or a bathroom renovation (or even both). Why is it expected to take so long? My kitchen was done in less than two weeks; the bathroom took about four days IIRC.
#7
Old 05-17-2018, 03:46 PM
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I also raised my eyebrows at the 8-10 week estimate. Our kitchen was unusable for a full week, but no more. Granted, I did some pretty rigid planning beforehand, so several contractors coud do work in good succession.

I let the painter come afterwards, when the kitchen was already in use, and he did prep and ceiling painting (one layer) in one day.

When our bathroom was renovated, ( four days total) we washed in the kitchen with washcloths. Our toilet is a separate unit.

Last edited by Maastricht; 05-17-2018 at 03:47 PM.
#8
Old 05-17-2018, 03:54 PM
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Also, how about renting a camper or unit and put it in your garden, or your apartments parking space?
https://houzz.com/discussions/25...during-remodel

Google has ideas too.
#9
Old 05-17-2018, 04:42 PM
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I moved my kitchen into another part of the house completely. It took quite a while (and Mrs. Floppy is rather high maintenance when it comes to this kind of inconvenience) so I was surprised that we survived easily on a microwave, a toaster oven, coffee maker and a camping stove (for boiling water and frying stuff).

We moved the fridge into the living area.

Family of three - one kid around 10 at the time.

Last edited by MrFloppy; 05-17-2018 at 04:44 PM.
#10
Old 05-17-2018, 05:21 PM
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You'll have to be really diligent about sectioning off the remodeling area with plastic. Dust, grit and fumes get everywhere.
#11
Old 05-17-2018, 05:23 PM
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See if your condo association has 'guest' condos available. Or if they have vacant units, ask about moving into one of them temporarily while this work is done. (It sounds like this work is not of your own initiative, but is being mandated by the condo association?)

And yes, 8-10 weeks is an outrageously long time for such work.

When the kitchen in my house was being redone, I moved the microwave to the dining room, got a cooler & ice for cold storage, etc. ... and ate a out a lot, or got take-out meals. But it was arranged with the contractor so there were only about 4 days when the kitchen was completely unusable.
#12
Old 05-17-2018, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colophon View Post
8-10 weeks seems a huge amount of time for either a kitchen or a bathroom renovation (or even both). Why is it expected to take so long? My kitchen was done in less than two weeks; the bathroom took about four days IIRC.
For a gut job where the plumbing is being moved, and with new floor, cabinets and appliances, for one example, it can easily take this long. We did a kitchen, bathroom and reconfigure the hallway job, which included new wiring and new plumbing, and it took about 3 months. There was some fussy tile work that took a few extra days as part of that time. Fortunately, we had a 2nd bathroom. We did eat takeout a lot.
#13
Old 05-17-2018, 08:37 PM
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Great replies. He reps for a firm here, and I am going to gut both rooms etc. He gave rough estimate of work, (minus appliances) at $80,000.

It was my first exposure to this. Going forward I'm going to figure on maybe dividing the job so I can get out of town for the bath but be here for the kitchen. Get a more informal relationship with someone, unless he is flexible.
#14
Old 05-17-2018, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
Yes, an extended stay in a hotel is going to cost a "bundle" as you put it. But so is the renovation of your kitchen and bathroom. You just need to figure the cost of a hotel stay into the budget. And you can check Airbnb or similar services to see if an apartment or house could be rented for weeks at a time for less than an extended stay hotel. Also, extended stay hotels might give you a break if you tell them how long you're going to stay.

And sure, you could just sell your place and avoid the hassle. But then you have to find a new place to live and move all of your stuff. If you like where you live other than the kitchen and bathroom, the renovation might be worth suffering through.
I am overdue for a vacation. Maybe try to get it done with a couple vacations worth of time.
#15
Old 05-17-2018, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by drad dog View Post
Great replies. He reps for a firm here, and I am going to gut both rooms etc. He gave rough estimate of work, (minus appliances) at $80,000.
Did you get additional bids? Because this seems like a real high estimate.
#16
Old 05-17-2018, 10:30 PM
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Did you get additional bids? Because this seems like a real high estimate.
Not yet. I hope this guy is the real high end too. Also I need cooperation from the vendor. I don't think he even thought about it.
#17
Old 05-18-2018, 02:49 AM
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Yes, it sounds like a unfavourably high bid. The term "gut" doesn't say much, really. My kitchen was:

Rewired, including new electrical outlets in the wall; new stucco; new sink, cabinets, appliances and above and below in new places / new tiles and window sills, and it cost all in all 15 K dollars.
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#18
Old 05-18-2018, 06:05 AM
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We recently had a full kitchen remodel. We used it as an excuse to dine out.

We have three bathrooms for two people, so that wouldn't be a problem.
#19
Old 05-18-2018, 06:53 AM
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For the kitchen, it was a galley style (so cabinets and appliances on either side of the central walkway), and it was possible to do half at a time, leaving a fully functioning kitchen at all times. It helped that we were adding a second sink to the other side so there was always a working kitchen sink.
#20
Old 05-18-2018, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Maastricht View Post
Yes, it sounds like a unfavourably high bid. The term "gut" doesn't say much, really. My kitchen was:

Rewired, including new electrical outlets in the wall; new stucco; new sink, cabinets, appliances and above and below in new places / new tiles and window sills, and it cost all in all 15 K dollars.
If you just translated from through a currency converter it's not quite the same, though (cost of living is higher in most of the US than in the Netherlands), although it would still be nowhere near 80K.

When my mother redid the big bathroom, it involved removing all tiles (floor and walls), the tub, toilet, sink and bidet. Pipes and electrical were replaced; the new ones go to the same spots but the wires were put inside these plastic tubes which weren't even in the market when the house was built and which make later work much easier. The whole thing took two weeks but the toilet was usable all the time except for one day; other parts weren't anywhere near as important. She spent that night at my brother's.
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#21
Old 05-18-2018, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by drad dog View Post
I am overdue for a vacation. Maybe try to get it done with a couple vacations worth of time.

You may want to stay close by during the renovation. There are always questions and changes which come up along the way. It would be better if you could see any issues in person rather than having the contractor describe them over the phone.

You also want to keep an eye on their work as well to make sure things are done correctly. If you're not there to oversee things, the workers may take shortcuts or do things differently than you want.

Last edited by filmore; 05-18-2018 at 07:51 AM.
#22
Old 05-18-2018, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Maastricht View Post
Also, how about renting a camper or unit and put it in your garden, or your apartments parking space?
https://houzz.com/discussions/25...during-remodel

Google has ideas too.
Travel trailer rentals here in the Phoenix area start at about $100 a night, a rate easily beaten by hotels, never mind long-term stay places.
#23
Old 05-18-2018, 08:06 AM
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Minority view - but depending on the size of the rooms and the finishes selected, $80k is not necessarily out of line. Custom cabinetry can add up really quickly, as can tile if you are using a lot of it and choose a pricey tile. And the sky's pretty much the limit if you want to go crazy w/ plumbing/lighting fixtures. Hell, I've seen $100k STOVES!

Even with a gut bathroom job, you should be able to arrange it that your toilet is not out of commission for more than a day at a time. And don't decommission both kitchen and bathroom sinks at the same time.

We used our kitchen gut as an excuse to compare all of the local pizza joints!

I agree with whomever said you don't want to be out of town throughout the process. Even if you pay a pricey contractor, you'll be amazed at the little things they screw up, or the countless decisions that have to be made throughout the job.
#24
Old 05-18-2018, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
Minority view - but depending on the size of the rooms and the finishes selected, $80k is not necessarily out of line. Custom cabinetry can add up really quickly, as can tile if you are using a lot of it and choose a pricey tile.
True. But all that happens if you decide to go to a pricey kitchen store. You'll be treated like royalty there. And you'll pay about 70 K for that treatment, and get preciously little to show for it.

We, that is me as user, and my uncle-in-law who's a professional kitchen installer, sing the praise of IKEA kitchens. Very good, pretty, and affordable. Nowhere near 80 K for a kitchen. Closer to 3 - 9 K.
#25
Old 05-18-2018, 11:55 AM
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Yes, you can get a kitchen and bathroom renovated for much less than $80,000. And if the condo itself is only worth a small amount (say, $150,000), you probably don't want to put that much money into it. But if that $80,000 represents only a small fraction of the value of the condo, it might be worth it. It might even be expected. Would you, for instance, put an IKEA kitchen in a multi-million dollar Park Avenue apartment?
#26
Old 05-18-2018, 12:26 PM
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Does your condo community have common areas with bathrooms? Sometimes the pool will have showers. That may be an option if your bathroom is out of service.
#27
Old 05-18-2018, 04:18 PM
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8-10 weeks!!!???!!!

I did a half bath, replaced the toilet, took out the pedestal sink, put in a new vanity, new marble countertop, undermount sink, new faucet, new lighting, and new mirror...all in about 9 hours.
#28
Old 05-18-2018, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by filmore View Post
You may want to stay close by during the renovation. There are always questions and changes which come up along the way. It would be better if you could see any issues in person rather than having the contractor describe them over the phone.

You also want to keep an eye on their work as well to make sure things are done correctly. If you're not there to oversee things, the workers may take shortcuts or do things differently than you want.
Good point.

I wonder how Home Depot works for contracting it out. I assume Ikea is a cheaper brand for all the stuff. But you can get decent stuff at Home Depot.
#29
Old 05-18-2018, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Maastricht View Post
True. But all that happens if you decide to go to a pricey kitchen store. You'll be treated like royalty there. And you'll pay about 70 K for that treatment, and get preciously little to show for it.

We, that is me as user, and my uncle-in-law who's a professional kitchen installer, sing the praise of IKEA kitchens. Very good, pretty, and affordable. Nowhere near 80 K for a kitchen. Closer to 3 - 9 K.
So if we were talking about a kitchen of the size and shape of the open floor L shaped model ones, and a small bath, (plus window and closet treatments) how much do you reckon that would run from Ikea?
#30
Old 05-18-2018, 11:31 PM
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I wonder how Home Depot works for contracting it out. I assume Ikea is a cheaper brand for all the stuff. But you can get decent stuff at Home Depot.
Home Depot contracts the work out to anonymous local workers, and then adds on a percentage to the price you pay.

You're better off finding a local contractor yourself. Mostly the same people that Home Depot subcontracts to do the work, but you know their names and can get local references (Angies List, etc.) to choose one with a good reputation.
#31
Old 05-18-2018, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Home Depot contracts the work out to anonymous local workers, and then adds on a percentage to the price you pay.

You're better off finding a local contractor yourself. Mostly the same people that Home Depot subcontracts to do the work, but you know their names and can get local references (Angies List, etc.) to choose one with a good reputation.
Well the result of that search is that this first guy must be the very high end. Haven't seen anyone else yet. Not sure why he upsold me so much when I'm going to have to stagger this job at the very least. The issue can't be new to him.
#32
Old 05-18-2018, 11:59 PM
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Since the OP is looking for advice, let's move this to IMHO.

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#33
Old Yesterday, 12:04 AM
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8-10 weeks!!!???!!!

I did a half bath, replaced the toilet, took out the pedestal sink, put in a new vanity, new marble countertop, undermount sink, new faucet, new lighting, and new mirror...all in about 9 hours.
Yeah, this man! What kind of Cowboy Builder did you hire?

Me? I'd just move to my home in Tahoe, Cannes, Hawaii, Aruba, Wabuska or Rio. Whichever had the best weather at the time.

Last edited by Gatopescado; Yesterday at 12:07 AM. Reason: Goddammit! Always fucking Wabuska! Even the Train Station left!
#34
Old Yesterday, 12:08 AM
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Our complete kitchen remodel was 2 weeks (including the attached family room). We used the microwave and ate salads and sandwiches. Our complete bathroom remodel, including moving a wall, was one. There was one day when the toilet was unusable.
#35
Old Yesterday, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by drad dog View Post
So if we were talking about a kitchen of the size and shape of the open floor L shaped model ones, and a small bath, (plus window and closet treatments) how much do you reckon that would run from Ikea?
You can use a tool on the IKEA site do do a quick mock-up of the kitchen and appliances you'd want, and the tool will give you the exact price list. See here. And IKEA is affordable, not cheap. They have the advantage of scale, and they have a reputation to uphold. They basically have one good basic kitchen set, the METHOD series. But with a gazillion different styles and finishings, ranging from utterly basic to very luxurious. But the bare bones of the material of the kitchen is good and strong and tested and perfected to the hilt, and affordable because they sell so many of them. And everything fits and matches. IKEA is design in the best way possible.

Recently my Dutch consumer's magazine confirmed that IKEA is good quality and that the stores do not try to upsell you. But you WILL have to do more work yourself in the planning stage. It will be the most money you've earned/saved per hour, if you look at it later. Or you can just give up and walk into a kitchen store and have them pamper yu and take all worries out of your hands and then... you'll pay 50 K more for the same kitchen and work years to repay that.

Last edited by Maastricht; Yesterday at 04:39 AM.
#36
Old Yesterday, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by drad dog View Post
Well the result of that search is that this first guy must be the very high end. Haven't seen anyone else yet. Not sure why he upsold me so much when I'm going to have to stagger this job at the very least. The issue can't be new to him.
I think you need to do more research to learn what a high-end kitchen and bathroom offer versus a budget job from IKEA, Home Depot or the like. Neither is wrong, really, but what you get is different. And really, there are many ways to either blow up the budget or keep it affordable. For instance, you can get cabinet and drawer pulls that cost a dollar or two each, or ones that cost ten or twenty bucks each.

There are kitchen and plumbing showrooms that have stock at different price points and I'm sure they're used to the need to educate people on the differences.

If this doesn't make much sense, think about car shopping. The Honda Fit I drive cost about $20,000 new and it's a fine car. But you can spend $100,000 or $200,000 on a car as well. Both will get you from point A to point B. But there are reasons why they cost different amounts.
#37
Old Yesterday, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Maastricht View Post
We, that is me as user, and my uncle-in-law who's a professional kitchen installer, sing the praise of IKEA kitchens. Very good, pretty, and affordable. Nowhere near 80 K for a kitchen. Closer to 3 - 9 K.
The one problem with IKEA is that if you need to do any rewiring, plumbing, etc. they don't do that (they'll change plugs or put under-cupboard lighting). But most kitchens can be remodeled without needing to go that deep.
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Last edited by Nava; Yesterday at 09:57 AM.
#38
Old Yesterday, 11:00 AM
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The one problem with IKEA is that if you need to do any rewiring, plumbing, etc. they don't do that (they'll change plugs or put under-cupboard lighting). But most kitchens can be remodeled without needing to go that deep.
Without the plumbing and lighting and electric I can't see it as a useful service for me in my position now.
#39
Old Yesterday, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
I think you need to do more research to learn what a high-end kitchen and bathroom offer versus a budget job from IKEA, Home Depot or the like. Neither is wrong, really, but what you get is different. And really, there are many ways to either blow up the budget or keep it affordable. For instance, you can get cabinet and drawer pulls that cost a dollar or two each, or ones that cost ten or twenty bucks each.

There are kitchen and plumbing showrooms that have stock at different price points and I'm sure they're used to the need to educate people on the differences.

If this doesn't make much sense, think about car shopping. The Honda Fit I drive cost about $20,000 new and it's a fine car. But you can spend $100,000 or $200,000 on a car as well. Both will get you from point A to point B. But there are reasons why they cost different amounts.
I just sold the moms condo. So I am good with costs that are fair no matter what. It's the displacement that's the bigger issue.
#40
Old Yesterday, 11:10 AM
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I wasn't talking about whether you could afford a high-end kitchen and bath, but that you need to understand why, for example, one kitchen remodel might cost $50,000 while another approach might cost only $15,000. Certainly some costs are going to be the same either way. But other things, like countertops vary in cost from perhaps $15 per square foot for Formica to $100 per square foot for granite or marble.
#41
Old Yesterday, 11:23 AM
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Ikea sells kitchens, they are not in the business of installing them, no. But every Ikea will recommend local contractors to you that do that.
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#42
Old Yesterday, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
I wasn't talking about whether you could afford a high-end kitchen and bath, but that you need to understand why, for example, one kitchen remodel might cost $50,000 while another approach might cost only $15,000. Certainly some costs are going to be the same either way. But other things, like countertops vary in cost from perhaps $15 per square foot for Formica to $100 per square foot for granite or marble.
The guy said his price didn't include appliances. And he didn't lay out a big price spread with options. He thought it was in the neighborhood of 80K no matter what I opted for, apparently.

I'm way ahead of you on that I need to do more research. I need to find a more accomodating vendor for one thing.

Last edited by drad dog; Yesterday at 12:48 PM.
#43
Old Yesterday, 01:35 PM
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If you just translated from through a currency converter it's not quite the same, though (cost of living is higher in most of the US than in the Netherlands), although it would still be nowhere near 80K.
A quick check at this comparison calculator. I ran comparisons between the three cities of Dallas, Cincinatti, and Las Vegas with both Amsterdam and Rotterdam. One American city was about the same as one Dutch; all five remaining results favored the American cities.
#44
Old Yesterday, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Maastricht View Post
Ikea sells kitchens, they are not in the business of installing them, no. But every Ikea will recommend local contractors to you that do that.
In some countries they don't even recommend them but subcontract them.
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#45
Old Today, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by drad dog View Post
The guy said his price didn't include appliances. And he didn't lay out a big price spread with options. He thought it was in the neighborhood of 80K no matter what I opted for, apparently.

I'm way ahead of you on that I need to do more research. I need to find a more accomodating vendor for one thing.
You think? Yes, this guy is scamming you. And to answer your earlier question: a decent L shaped kitchen, medium luxury finish, including appliances, not including installing, paint and tiles... I'd say 3 to 5 K.

Last edited by Maastricht; Today at 01:37 AM.
#46
Old Today, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by drad dog View Post
The guy said his price didn't include appliances. And he didn't lay out a big price spread with options. He thought it was in the neighborhood of 80K no matter what I opted for, apparently.

I'm way ahead of you on that I need to do more research. I need to find a more accomodating vendor for one thing.
You think? Yes, this guy is scamming you. And to answer your earlier question: a decent L shaped kitchen fron IKEA, medium luxury finish, including appliances and cabinets and countertop, not including installing, paint and tiles... I'd say 3 to 5 K.

That would not be granite though. Ikea has their own kind of material for custom made countertops. It's a kind of modern terrazzo, a composite that looks like granite but is cheaper, more durable, lighter, less fussy in upkeep, and - I think- overall a better choice.. See what I mean about their design being really better and not just fancier?

Last edited by Maastricht; Today at 01:43 AM. Reason: sorry for double post.
#47
Old Today, 02:07 AM
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There are eight units per floor in our condo building. The lady five doors down from us on the end is getting her bathroom redone, and we've been letting her shower in our place. But she also owns the unit next door to us and rents that out, and the tenants just moved out yesterday, and her new tenant won't move in until June 1, so now she's using that place.
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