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#51
Old 07-05-2018, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
Another interesting situation is the reverse-- where a word enters English as a plural, and then one has to ask how to singularize it. Do you ask for a biscotto when wants only one, or do you ask for one biscotti? I said "biscotto" once to a barista and she looked at me like I was crazy. "Oh, you mean a biscotti?" Yeah, whatever. But then the question becomes, if I want two, do I ask for 2 biscottis?
Generally, if it enters as a plural, it stays a plural. I grew up speaking Polish, so, for me, I know damned well that pierogi is plural, and that a single one is a pierog, but, when speaking English (in most cases), I use pierogi for both the singular and the plural. I'll also pronounce it in the local manner, which is like "puh-ROH-ghee" rather than the Polish, which is more like "pyeh-ROH-ghee" (with a "flap r" instead of a retroflex-r.) I do often use the correct Polish forms if I'm talking in English to a native Polish speaker. (For example, when talking to my mom, I may say "can you pass me a pierog?")
#52
Old 07-05-2018, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
Personally? Because I prefer foreign words to be pluralized in the target language by the target language's rules.
+1

"Torus" is a Latin masculine noun, and the plural form is "Tori". "Toruses" is a Latin word that has been forced to obey English conventions governing plurality. Either is correct, but "Tori" is more aesthetically pleasing.
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#53
Old 07-05-2018, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasmine View Post
+1

"Torus" is a Latin masculine noun, and the plural form is "Tori". "Toruses" is a Latin word that has been forced to obey English conventions governing plurality. Either is correct, but "Tori" is more aesthetically pleasing.
No, Torus is a English word. We stole it fair and square. They were just lying there in that dark alley and loose vocabulary was coming out of their pockets, what else could we do.

Thus the plural is toruses.

If, indeed, you are speaking Latin, then use tori.
#54
Old 07-05-2018, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
Personally? Because I prefer foreign words to be pluralized in the target language by the target language's rules.
If we did that for every word English has stolen, no one would know what the plural is for anything. Torus is now English. We stole from Latins dead body.
#55
Old 07-05-2018, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
If we did that for every word English has stolen, no one would know what the plural is for anything. Torus is now English. We stole from Latins dead body.
What's the plural of bacterium? Or locus?
#56
Old 07-05-2018, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
If we did that for every word English has stolen, no one would know what the plural is for anything. Torus is now English. We stole from Latins dead body.
I believe we agree. Like I said I prefer "toruses." (You even agree with me on your post on page one.) Are people misunderstanding what I'm saying? I said "I prefer foreign words to be pluralized in the target language by the target language's rules." So, torus is a "foreign" word English borrowed and my preference is that it should be pluralized in the target language (English) by the target language's (English's) rules. Ergo, toruses.

Last edited by pulykamell; 07-05-2018 at 04:49 PM.
#57
Old 07-05-2018, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
I believe we agree. Like I said I prefer "toruses." (You even agree with me on your post on page one.) Are people misunderstanding what I'm saying? I said "I prefer foreign words to be pluralized in the target language by the target language's rules." So, torus is a "foreign" word English borrowed and my preference is that it should be pluralized in the target language (English) by the target language's (English's) rules. Ergo, toruses.

Ita! vērō!
#58
Old 07-07-2018, 12:28 AM
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As a mathematician (and moreover a topologist), we absolutely use 'tori' over 'toruses'. Google reports more than 100 times as many searches for "maximal tori" as "maximal toruses," for example.
#59
Old 07-07-2018, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
Generally, if it enters as a plural, it stays a plural. I grew up speaking Polish, so, for me, I know damned well that pierogi is plural, and that a single one is a pierog, but, when speaking English (in most cases), I use pierogi for both the singular and the plural. I'll also pronounce it in the local manner, which is like "puh-ROH-ghee" rather than the Polish, which is more like "pyeh-ROH-ghee" (with a "flap r" instead of a retroflex-r.) I do often use the correct Polish forms if I'm talking in English to a native Polish speaker. (For example, when talking to my mom, I may say "can you pass me a pierog?")
Huh. It never would have occurred to me that anyone would ever ask for just one of those...
#60
Old 07-07-2018, 08:30 AM
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I've always used "pierogi" as the singular, and "pierogis" as the plural. Which I now learn is wrong, but it won't be the first time English has double-pluralized a word.

As for contexts where the singular might be used:
(when making them) "That pierogi didn't seal up properly."
(when serving them at the fish fry) "Give that customer an extra pierogi."
(when finishing up a meal) "Who wants the last pierogi?"
#61
Old 07-07-2018, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
I've always used "pierogi" as the singular, and "pierogis" as the plural. Which I now learn is wrong, but it won't be the first time English has double-pluralized a word.
Actually, come to think of it, in English I will sometimes say "pierogis" as well for the plural. My father has the habit of double-pluralizing when he borrows English words and puts them into Polish, so a phrase like hot dogs becomes hot dogsy in Polish-English. (The proper Polish plural would be hot dogi for the borrowed word.) He's the only one I know who seems to do it this way.
#62
Old 07-07-2018, 12:27 PM
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Trying to preserve plural forms from another language is a fool's errand.

Take paparazzi. That's an Italian plural. The singular is paparazzo (male) and paparazza (female). Egad, like we need more gender specific job descriptions now.

Just going with paparazzi as singular and plural works, but I would have no problem with paparazzis.
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