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#1
Old 07-02-2018, 07:10 PM
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The "walkaway movement to abandon liberalism" is astroturf.

There's a new "movement", #walkaway, on Twitter that appears to be going viral. It's called "the walkaway movement to abandon liberalism". It appears to be obvious astroturf.

Twitter account "New Knowledge" makes the case:
https://twitter.com/NewKnowledge...268826624?s=17
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Knowledge
We found Twitter accounts with small follower counts benefiting from a huge spike in engagement. But on closer inspection, some of the #walkaway accounts being amplified are clearly fake. One popular account is using a stock image for a profile photo.

Regardless, as of today, the fake Sofia Vargaros account is still active, and its most successful post has been retweeted over 16K times. The account has seen a 1200% increase in followers.

Many other accounts have been copy/pasting identical content to create the false impression of broad public support for the #walkaway campaign.

In addition to the amplification by domestic groups like 4chan and alt-right subreddits, the campaign is also getting a boost from foreign actors. #walkaway is by far the top hashtag amplified by the network of Russia-linked Twitter accounts monitored by #Hamilton68.
Googling "Walkaway Movement" shows a number of results declaring it a "danger to Democrats" and stating that it's "gaining steam" and that "freethinkers are abandoning the left". The list includes some of the usual suspects such as Breitbart.

To me, it's obvious bullshit. Do they really believe that people are going to fall for this? This kind of deliberate pollution of the internet irritates the hell out of me.

Last edited by davidm; 07-02-2018 at 07:11 PM.
#2
Old 07-02-2018, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by davidm View Post
To me, it's obvious bullshit. Do they really believe that people are going to fall for this? This kind of deliberate pollution of the internet irritates the hell out of me.
They have fallen for worse.
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#3
Old 07-02-2018, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Typo Negative View Post
They have fallen for worse.
People on the right may fall for it, but I find it hard to believe that many on the left will "abandon liberalism" because they think others are doing so. Do the people behind this really believe that it will achieve something?
#4
Old 07-02-2018, 07:46 PM
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Hey, it worked pretty well once before. Expect a lot of this kind of garbage in advance of the mid-terms.
#5
Old 07-03-2018, 10:59 PM
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You go to some conservative sites and you'd think the walk away movement is the second coming of christ, but then you try to find some more legit sources on the subject and it soon becomes clear that it is very overhyped.


But that's not to say it couldn't become a thing. I work in a blue area with lots of black guys and it is pretty apparent that the Democratic platform is highly problematic for a lot of them. You have guys who are black and very against abortion, you have very religious black people that are not really going to warm up to atheists who belittle their beliefs and say stuff like "worshipping some sky man," the metoo movement is a little scary for a population used to being judged guilty of all manner of things with little evidence. Etc. If, hypothetically, their was no longer a belief that Republicans are patently racist, neonazi sympathizers probably the Democrats would lose a lot of support.
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#6
Old 07-04-2018, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nylock View Post
If, hypothetically, their was no longer a belief that Republicans are patently racist, neonazi sympathizers probably the Democrats would lose a lot of support.
Luckily for the Democrats, it doesn't seem like that's going to happen in my lifetime.
#7
Old 07-04-2018, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jayjay View Post
Luckily for the Democrats, it doesn't seem like that's going to happen in my lifetime.
If you're assuming your lifetime is less than 6 years from now I would agree.
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#8
Old 07-04-2018, 08:38 AM
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Most 'liberals' aren't very committed to the philosophy, they'll walk away eventually of their own accord.
#9
Old 07-04-2018, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidm View Post
People on the right may fall for it, but I find it hard to believe that many on the left will "abandon liberalism" because they think others are doing so. Do the people behind this really believe that it will achieve something?
Well it depends. Is it all the cool kids doing it?
#10
Old 07-04-2018, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
Most 'liberals' aren't very committed to the philosophy, they'll walk away eventually of their own accord.
Most people aren't very committed to any philosophy let alone ones as sweeping as "liberal" or "conservative". It's not like there's some underlying unfying reasoning connecting their abortion rights, Affirmative Action and free trade positions.

Last edited by CarnalK; 07-04-2018 at 09:15 AM.
#11
Old 07-04-2018, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
Most people aren't very committed to any philosophy let alone ones as sweeping as "liberal" or "conservative". It's not like there's some underlying unfying reasoning connecting their abortion rights, Affirmative Action and free trade positions.
It's about whether they'll take action based on their professed philosophy. Liberals talk big and act little. The conservative side never hesitates to vote for their bottom line, and neither does the liberal side. The conservative base votes reliably, the liberal base needs to be exhorted to come out an vote. Conservative is like a religion, it attracts true believers, liberals are just bystanders.
#12
Old 07-04-2018, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidm View Post
People on the right may fall for it, but I find it hard to believe that many on the left will "abandon liberalism" because they think others are doing so. Do the people behind this really believe that it will achieve something?
I don’t see anyone changing their political values over this, but I could see some people buying into it enough that they get dispirited and stay home on Election Day.
#13
Old 07-04-2018, 10:48 AM
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About the only thing that could counter that would be if Il Douche committed some monumentally stupid, cruel and/or treasonous act.
#14
Old 07-04-2018, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Miller View Post
I don’t see anyone changing their political values over this, but I could see some people buying into it enough that they get dispirited and stay home on Election Day.
That's kind of the flip side of what I'm saying. It's a question of whether this is the cause or the symptom.
#15
Old 07-04-2018, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
Most 'liberals' aren't very committed to the philosophy, they'll walk away eventually of their own accord.
Really? Where will they go?
#16
Old 07-04-2018, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by elucidator View Post
About the only thing that could counter that would be if Il Douche committed some monumentally stupid, cruel and/or treasonous act.
I guess you wrote this in 1950? Because he's been doing that since he learned he could pull the wings off flies.
#17
Old 07-04-2018, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Ulfreida View Post
Really? Where will they go?
They just stay home. I don't think many people change their political philosophy, but it's a question of whether they'll act or stand by. The liberal side seems to become complacent with the status quo and not realize the other side is relentless. Look at which side campaigns on rolling back change.
#18
Old 07-04-2018, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
They just stay home. I don't think many people change their political philosophy, but it's a question of whether they'll act or stand by. The liberal side seems to become complacent with the status quo and not realize the other side is relentless. Look at which side campaigns on rolling back change.
I feel quite strongly that the last thing the liberal side of this country is, is complacent.
#19
Old 07-04-2018, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
Well it depends. Is it all the cool kids doing it?
At least a couple of them are - but I doubt you would know anything about that.
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#20
Old 07-04-2018, 05:34 PM
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Vagaros isn't even a spanish/hispanic surname. In fact, it doesn't even appear to be a name at all.

https://google.com/search?safe=o...q=Vagaros+name

https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/...garos&uidh=000
#21
Old 07-04-2018, 05:40 PM
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A standard projection tactic, attempting to downplay the real "walk away" movement known as Never-Trumpism.
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Last edited by Steve MB; 07-04-2018 at 05:40 PM.
#22
Old 07-04-2018, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller View Post
I don’t see anyone changing their political values over this, but I could see some people buying into it enough that they get dispirited and stay home on Election Day.
No one is going to change their values. The problem is that a lot of liberal values are being abandoned by Democrats.

There are a lot of Democrats who care about issues like unions, welfare, free speech, free trade, equal rights for all, laws and institutions that treat everyone the same regardless of the color of their skin or their ethnic background.

Then they look at the modern Democratic party with its focus on racial and sexual identity, completely open borders, hate speech codes, quotas and preferential treatment for 'oppressed' classes, and they think 'that's not the Democratic party I grew up in, and I can't support them any more'.

Go look up Sam Harris, Dave Rubin and Joe Rogan on Youtube. Check out how many followers they are picking up. These guys are all people who called the Democratic party home for most of their lives, and now find themselves vilified within their own party because they are not down with what the left is doing on college campuses or their abandonment of classically liberal values in favor of identity politics and socialism and open borders for all. Their podcasts often get more viewers than CNN gets in prime time.

If I were a Democrat, I would be especially worried about black voters. They tend to be religious and socially conservative, but were Democrats because Democrats fought for black rights and more social programs to help them. If Democrats abandon or downplay that part of their platform in favor of focusing on LGBT, feminist, and open borders policies, They could fracture that coalition. If that happens, Democrats are in big trouble. Trump picked up more black votes in the ladt election than did Mitt Romney. That should worry Democrats.
#23
Old 07-04-2018, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Stone View Post
Then they look at the modern Democratic party with its focus on racial and sexual identity, completely open borders, hate speech codes, quotas and preferential treatment for 'oppressed' classes
If they get their info about the Democratic Party from Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, it's already too late to reach them.
Quote:
Go look up Sam Harris, Dave Rubin and Joe Rogan on Youtube. Check out how many followers they are picking up. These guys are all people who called the Democratic party home for most of their lives
Citation needed.
#24
Old 07-04-2018, 06:10 PM
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As always, the Democratic party and the American Left graciously thank the conservative opinionators who are so very concerned about our electoral prospects that they can't help but offer "advice".
#25
Old 07-04-2018, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve MB View Post
A standard projection tactic, attempting to downplay the real "walk away" movement known as Never-Trumpism.
Yeah. So far it looks unlikely that most registered Democrats will even become aware of this "movement":

Quote:
A hashtag claiming to capture a movement among liberals has gone viral, in this case, almost exclusively on the right-wing Internet, as a reinforcement of one of its binding ideas.
https://washingtonpost.com/ampht...?noredirect=on

That's my experience so far---I wouldn't have known about it except that CNN's Brian Stelter tweeted a link to the WaPo article.

Enclaves of right-wingers are all excited about something that is highly likely to be mostly IRA (Internet Research Agency) posts/tweets, bot-programmed. Such tweets as I've looked at are highly unconvincing in their claims.


And by the way, the "Sofia Vargoros" account mentioned earlier in the thread has been suspended by Twitter, according to the same article:

Quote:
the account appears to be a bot, an impersonation or both: @sofialimited’s profile picture was stolen from a book cover by someone with a different name.
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#26
Old 07-04-2018, 06:40 PM
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I can't count the number of times I've heard Democrat leaders demanding "open borders". Can't even get to "one".
#27
Old 07-10-2018, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by elucidator View Post
I can't count the number of times I've heard Democrat leaders demanding "open borders". Can't even get to "one".
Yeah. Hey Sam Stone, please help a brother out and name any three prominent Democrats who have ever called for "completely open borders". It would be helpful if you could provide dates and locations where this was said, but I'm not demanding miracles.
#28
Old 07-10-2018, 04:45 PM
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I will call for open borders, if that somehow magically makes me a Democratic leader. Deal?
#29
Old 07-10-2018, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Stone View Post
Then they look at the modern Democratic party with its focus on racial and sexual identity, completely open borders, hate speech codes, quotas and preferential treatment for 'oppressed' classes, and they think 'that's not the Democratic party I grew up in, and I can't support them any more'.
"completely open borders"? Got a cite for that?

How about for the "quotas and the preferential treatment for 'oppressed' classes" thing, do you have a cite for that? Because I don't believe that you've accurately characterized whatever it is you think you're referring to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
Yeah. So far it looks unlikely that most registered Democrats will even become aware of this "movement":

https://washingtonpost.com/ampht...?noredirect=on

That's my experience so far---I wouldn't have known about it except that CNN's Brian Stelter tweeted a link to the WaPo article.
This thread is the first I had heard of it.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 07-10-2018 at 05:38 PM.
#30
Old 07-10-2018, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
...This thread is the first I had heard of it.
The "walkaway" initiative to harm Democrats does appear to be laboring under the difficulties posed by Twitter's very recent actions in culling fake accounts. So it's having trouble reaching enough actual humans to matter.

A new article with some interesting information came out yesterday:

Quote:
... Anyone who’s spent time in the harrowing weeds of political Twitter recently, however, has surely witnessed the prevalence of trolls and bots swarming popular liberals and “blue checks” while simultaneously spreading propaganda designed to influence the outcome of the election. The Huffington Post reported over the weekend that this troll attack is a counter-measure against the potential “blue wave” coming this fall, with the WalkAway hashtag intended to simulate real-world Democrats who have apparently chosen to leave the party due to its (try not to laugh) alleged intolerance and lack of civility. It’s a ludicrous concept, given the galactically more egregious incivility of Trump and his Red Hats, extending back at least three years and including a deadly terrorist attack in Charlottesville, among myriad other examples.

In any case, this "hashtag has been connected to Russian bots," according to the HuffPost report:
It has ranked as the third or fourth most popular Kremlin-linked hashtag for days ...

https://salon.com/2018/07/09/rus...lin-operation/
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#31
Old 07-11-2018, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulfreida View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
Most 'liberals' aren't very committed to the philosophy, they'll walk away eventually of their own accord.
Really? Where will they go?
They'll go to the Greens, or simply refuse to vote, like too many did in 2016.


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#32
Old 07-12-2018, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by elucidator View Post
I can't count the number of times I've heard Democrat leaders demanding "open borders". Can't even get to "one".

Well I'm all for abolishing borders and abandoning the concept of nation-states altogether, but then if people ever voted for me for anything whatsoever up to and including class attendance monitor ; I'd probably have to have them committed on "danger to self and/or others" grounds.
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#33
Old 07-12-2018, 07:00 AM
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Duh. No one would abandon liberalism. Some GOPers claim it's a "mental illness," LOL, but when you read their own theories it's like, look in a mirror. Anyway, this reeks of Russian BS. A miserable people making others' lives miserable.
#34
Old 07-20-2018, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Nylock View Post
You go to some conservative sites and you'd think the walk away movement is the second coming of christ, but then you try to find some more legit sources on the subject and it soon becomes clear that it is very overhyped.


But that's not to say it couldn't become a thing. I work in a blue area with lots of black guys and it is pretty apparent that the Democratic platform is highly problematic for a lot of them. You have guys who are black and very against abortion, you have very religious black people that are not really going to warm up to atheists who belittle their beliefs and say stuff like "worshipping some sky man," the metoo movement is a little scary for a population used to being judged guilty of all manner of things with little evidence. Etc. If, hypothetically, their was no longer a belief that Republicans are patently racist, neonazi sympathizers probably the Democrats would lose a lot of support.
If the Republicans weren't such racists and sexists and bigots, they could attract a lot of Asian votes.

There is a fairly even split between small government/low tax Asians and robust government/high tax Asians. Asians are pretty evenly split on everything other than bigotry.

Sure there is bigotry against Asians coming from the left but I think we still see Republicans as the party that provides safe harbor for racists.
#35
Old 07-20-2018, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by elucidator View Post
I can't count the number of times I've heard Democrat leaders demanding "open borders". Can't even get to "one".
Does Hillary Clinton count?

IIRC Bernie Sanders was dead set against it. AFAICT Open Borders is more of a New Democrat thing than a liberal Democrat thing.
#36
Old 07-20-2018, 10:48 AM
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It is part of the same dumb movement to label anyone who doesn't vote GOP as "liberal", a word people have spent decades packing with every demonizing concept possible. There is such a thing as a self-identifying liberal, but mostly this word is used as an accusation in an exercise in name calling.

How do I know that? Ask anyone who uses this word in that way to define it. They Never can.
#37
Old 07-20-2018, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Does Hillary Clinton count?

IIRC Bernie Sanders was dead set against it. AFAICT Open Borders is more of a New Democrat thing than a liberal Democrat thing.
Well, not open borders. Just the abolishing of the agency which regulates the borders.

Sorta like defunding Planned Parenthood and claiming you aren't against abortion.
#38
Old 07-20-2018, 10:38 PM
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ICE doesn't regulate the borders, though. Not according to this here pdf.

trac.syr.edu/immigration/library/P3897.pdf

Quote:
After the massive reorganization of federal agencies precipitated by the creation of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), there are now four main federal agencies charged with securing the United States’ borders: the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection (CBP), which patrols the border and conducts immigrations, customs, and agricultural inspections at ports of entry; the Bureau of Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE), which investigates immigrations and customs violations in the interior of the country; the United States Coast Guard, which provides maritime and port security; and the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), which is responsible for securing the nation’s land, rail, and air transportation networks.
#39
Old Yesterday, 10:19 PM
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One thing to remember with American politics is that it's all quite right wing and conservative.
I would consider the Democrat party to be center-right by international standards, and the GOP to be way off to the right and also now batshit crazy.

So the label "Liberalism" is a pretty big umbrella, as it covers everything to the left of this right-shifted baseline (yes I know "left-wing" =/= "Liberal" but that's how it seems to be used now).

In that context, what does abandoning Liberalism mean? That you pledge to put your fingers in your ears during most political discourse? An up-front promise that you'll reject any ideas on how to govern a country or improve society if it comes from the wrong part of the political spectrum (where "wrong" is actually most of it)?
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