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#151
Old 07-07-2018, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
Your putting of an "and" on that would imply that I said that all of these things would be concurrent, which is not something that I said.
You did, in fact, clearly imply that they would be happening at the same time, and that it would all be within one election cycle. If they weren't concurrent, then you don't have an answer to the question of 'why don't people just vote instead of starting a civil war'. Don't feel too bad about that; no one talking about civil war seems to have a good answer for why people will throw away their lifestyle and put their life at risk before they cast a ballot for something different.
#152
Old 07-08-2018, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by madmonk28 View Post
It's not sporadic it's pretty constant. I would include mass shootings as element of it; they are in essence lone wolf operations inspired by the NRA similar to the lone wolf attacks inspired by ISIS. The fact is we do not have shared values, or a shared culture and we now have a president who is exploiting those divisions while intentionally breaking our political norms and pandering to white nationalism. It's happening and it's going to get worse.
This is nothing compared to the 1970's. According to FBI statistics, the United States experienced more than 2,500 domestic bombings in just 18 months in 1971 and 1972, with virtually no solved crimes and barely any significant prosecution, mostly from leftist groups like the Weather Underground. We haven't anything as serious as the Kent State shooting.

I'm not saying we don't have problems--Trump by himself is a problem--but these problems aren't worse than what we've experienced before.

Last edited by Deeg; 07-08-2018 at 09:55 AM.
#153
Old 07-08-2018, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
I've heard people equate the NRA with terrorists before (and I thought it was a stupid argument then), but this is the first time I've heard anyone claim they actually "inspired" mass shootings. Which particular shootings do you think were "inspired by the NRA"?
Perhaps the comment stems from this?

From the Chicago Tribune:

Quote:
The troubled teen authorities say killed 17 people at a Florida high school excelled in an air-rifle marksmanship program supported by a grant from the National Rifle Association Foundation, part of a multimillion-dollar effort by the gun group to support youth shooting clubs and other programs.

Nikolas Cruz, 19, was wearing a maroon shirt with the logo from the Army Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps program at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School when he was arrested Wednesday shortly after the shooting.

[snip]

"He was a very good shot," said Aaron Diener, 20, who gave Cruz a ride to shooting competitions when they were part of the same four-member team in 2016. "He had an AR-15 he talked about, and pistols he had shot. ... He would tell us, 'Oh, it was so fun to shoot this rifle' or 'It was so fun to shoot that.' It seemed almost therapeutic to him, the way he spoke about it."
Sure sounds like Cruz got some inspiration from that NRA-funded marksman training, wouldn't you say?
#154
Old 07-08-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Club 33 View Post
... Sure sounds like Cruz got some inspiration from that NRA-funded marksman training, wouldn't you say?
His "inspiration"? No, I would not say that. He may have gained some of his skills from the air-rifle marksmanship program, but I don't see any evidence that that was his "inspiration".
#155
Old 07-08-2018, 01:59 PM
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Yeah that's a pretty shaky definition of "inspired"....the NRA may be responsible for a lot of problems, but I fail to see how air-rifle target shooting classes are one of them. Those have existed forever, most people involved in that sport never shoot anyone.
#156
Old 07-08-2018, 09:36 PM
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Perhaps his newfound skills inspired him. Maybe the NRA skills he learned helped him develop his talents to the extent that he finally found something he was good at, killing his classmates.

But please, sugarcoat their gun lessons. I've heard it all before.
#157
Old 07-09-2018, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by HMS Irruncible View Post
Meh... the threat of college-educated chemists and mechanical engineers depends on trade and economy. As long as I can get Amazon deliveries, theoretically, potentially, I'm a very dangerous man. But if the economy is diverted to beans and bullets, there's not much I can do. And I can't imagine even a state-supported Confederacy or Union would invent anything much worse than the US invented in any given month in the 1960's.

Who does China like in this scenario? So much depends on this. But even then, does the Navy break north or south?
You forget that the so-called red area is most of the map. And what lies under all that dirt? Minerals, oil, water. Which can be extracted and used to produce things. Such as weapons, power, food, etc. How much food can be grown in San Francisco or NYC?

Furthermore, even if urban areas are disproportionately blue they arenít homogeneous. Factional urban warfare would be nasty. Especially when power, water, and food are cut off from blue enclaves.

Population density also hurts when the war turns nasty and arson and incendiary weaponry are used, sewers are blocked, and Putin supplies the Trumpists with a tiny bit of smallpox.

All that said, Civil War II is something people should really work to avoid and not egg on.
#158
Old 07-09-2018, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Club 33 View Post
Perhaps his newfound skills inspired him. ...
"Perhaps" indeed, but no one has provided any evidence to support the idea. It remains just a wild theory trying too hard to slander the NRA.
#159
Old 07-09-2018, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
You forget that the so-called red area is most of the map. And what lies under all that dirt? Minerals, oil, water. Which can be extracted and used to produce things. Such as weapons, power, food, etc.
I didn't forget. Most of those modern factories will cease production after a week of being starved of fuel, materials, and replacement parts from overseas. And nowadays, farms are factories as well. All that stuff depends on bits and pieces that become extremely scarce if international trade is disrupted.
#160
Old 07-09-2018, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by HMS Irruncible View Post
I didn't forget. Most of those modern factories will cease production after a week of being starved of fuel, materials, and replacement parts from overseas. And nowadays, farms are factories as well. All that stuff depends on bits and pieces that become extremely scarce if international trade is disrupted.
So if rural areas with access to raw materials are vulnerable to supply chain disruption how would cities fare better? They canít even exist without importing water.

And imagine the cities with no power. Hospitals would shut down. No food in the stores. I donít think a few Starbucks sipping hippies working at Google would be enough to turn the tide and end the siege.
#161
Old 07-09-2018, 05:00 PM
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Do you think that urbanites are incapable of setting food outside the urban centers? The dirt is not politically "on your side," nor are the resources under it. It's not enough for the land to be bigger; your men have to be enough better to defend the land.
#162
Old 07-09-2018, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by foolsguinea View Post
Do you think that urbanites are incapable of setting food outside the urban centers? The dirt is not politically "on your side," nor are the resources under it. It's not enough for the land to be bigger; your men have to be enough better to defend the land.
Again, cities are not homogeneous. I doubt the left could even deal with factional urban warfare much less push into and hold the countryside long enough to extract wealth. Plus the reds would have Russian help and much of the military is from the South.
#163
Old 07-09-2018, 06:03 PM
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Congratulations on getting Octopus to admit to Russian meddling on the side of the Right. Well played, foolsguinea!
#164
Old 07-09-2018, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
Congratulations on getting Octopus to admit to Russian meddling on the side of the Right. Well played, foolsguinea!
Like my acknowledgement of the $50k or so of hacking the Russians did means anything. What’s sad is the $1 billion that Clinton raised and all the free press she received couldn’t overcome that major obstacle.

Last edited by octopus; 07-09-2018 at 06:10 PM.
#165
Old 07-09-2018, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
So if rural areas with access to raw materials are vulnerable to supply chain disruption how would cities fare better? They can’t even exist without importing water.
I didn't make the case that cities are better, just that contrary to the conservative imagination, the hinterlands are just as screwed for food and supplies as anyone else.

But cities at least have seaports and airports and human labor. The countryside will ravage all the game animals for about a month and then collapse while they're trying to remember how actual non-factory farms work. For every one actual country-boy survivor, there are 50 Wal-Mart greeters.

Last edited by HMS Irruncible; 07-09-2018 at 06:22 PM.
#166
Old 07-09-2018, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
Like my acknowledgement of the $50k or so of hacking the Russians did means anything.
What does the dollar cost of Russian election meddling have to do with anything? The 9/11 attacks only cost Bin Laden & Co. maybe half-a-million bucks; I guess that means they weren't that big of a deal, huh?
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#167
Old 07-09-2018, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
Plus the reds would have Russian help
Oh God, you think they love you and that's just so freaking adorable. No I'm sorry, the "reds" are just Russian tools. Useful idiots, I think someone said. After the US collapses they'll be left to twist in the wind like every other instrumental third-world shithole.

Last edited by HMS Irruncible; 07-09-2018 at 06:27 PM.
#168
Old 07-09-2018, 06:26 PM
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Lol, that's some pretty weak sauce, guy. In a thread about a hypothetical civil war you still have little more to say than "B-b-b-but, Obummer! B-b-Hillary! Th-th-th-thpeecheth!"

(Obviously, in the real world, Russia would sell arms to both sides.)

Last edited by JohnT; 07-09-2018 at 06:28 PM.
#169
Old 07-09-2018, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HMS Irruncible View Post
I didn't make the case that cities are better, just that contrary to the conservative imagination, the hinterlands are just as screwed for food and supplies as anyone else.

But cities at least have seaports and airports and human labor. The countryside will ravage all the game animals for about a month and then collapse while they're trying to remember how actual non-factory farms work. For every one actual country-boy survivor, there are 50 Wal-Mart greeters.
Lol. Well when the shooting starts I guess weíll see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEBuckner View Post
What does the dollar cost of Russian election meddling have to do with anything? The 9/11 attacks only cost Bin Laden & Co. maybe half-a-million bucks; I guess that means they weren't that big of a deal, huh?
Well, unlike 9/11 a few hacked emails arenít a big deal. It does illustrate that IT security is somewhat important.
#170
Old 07-09-2018, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HMS Irruncible View Post
Oh God, you think they love you and that's just so freaking adorable. No I'm sorry, the "reds" are just Russian tools. Useful idiots, I think someone said. After the US collapses they'll be left to twist in the wind like every other instrumental third-world shithole.
Nice snipping. You conveniently ignore the part where the majority of US military are not leftists.
#171
Old 07-09-2018, 06:34 PM
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... same could be said about the FBI, but God knows your side argues differently.
#172
Old 07-09-2018, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Can anyone name any conflict in history between an urban and a rural side where the rural side was the one that won?
Defining what "won" means is problematic but ...

Khmer Rouge?

Chinese Communist Revolution?
#173
Old 07-10-2018, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
Nice snipping. You conveniently ignore the part where the majority of US military are not leftists.
How does that relate to your hope that Russia is going to help out the red (I assume you mean Republican) states? Do you seriously believe that's true? What's the inconvenient pertinent bit that I left out?

I mean, wow. Russia is going to help the red states. That's where things are now.
#174
Old 07-10-2018, 09:32 AM
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Well, as he admitted, Russian interference in American politics has benefited his side greatly, so why wouldn't they want continued Russian support of the modern American connedservative movement?
#175
Old 07-10-2018, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
You conveniently ignore the part where the majority of US military are not leftists.
The majority aren't terribly partisan either. Nearly half are minorities. And the military is a machine that depends heavily on specialized skills. What happens when you remove half the parts of your car at random? Do you get a car that goes half as fast?
#176
Old 07-10-2018, 12:31 PM
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There is a big gulf between "not leftists" and "people who would be willing to fight for some dictatorial regime in an American Civil War." I think the vast majority of the military would fight to preserve the Constitution and the established political order that has been cumulatively built up over the past 200-odd years.

Of course, even just a few well-trained military officers and NCOs in various specialties, on the other side, could cause a tremendous amount of trouble.
#177
Old 07-10-2018, 07:30 PM
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And, remember, the Commander-in-Chief of the “red-hats” would be Donald J Trump. And they would be fighting for the right to be ruled by Donald J Trump. When you’re lying awake the night before the big battle, with random thoughts of what might lie ahead coursing through your brain, that’s gotta put a damper on things.
#178
Old 07-11-2018, 07:32 AM
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Who is the other side going to be fighting for - Bernie Sanders?

Regards,
Shodan
#179
Old 07-11-2018, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Who is the other side going to be fighting for - Bernie Sanders?

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No, they'd be fighting for Hillary. It's her turn.
#180
Old 07-11-2018, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Who is the other side going to be fighting for - Bernie Sanders?
Probably the Constitution, civil rights, and science.
#181
Old 07-11-2018, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Who is the other side going to be fighting for - Bernie Sanders?
They'll be fighting for everyone else. For the principle of democracy. Might be hard for a conservative to imagine, but not everybody wants a dictatorial strongman in charge of the government. And here's where you try to paint Obama as a dictator and we all laugh.
#182
Old 07-11-2018, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
Probably the Constitution, civil rights, and science.
ha ha ha...oh, my...ha ha ha
#183
Old 07-11-2018, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Scumpup View Post
ha ha ha...oh, my...ha ha ha
Not things you would fight for, I take it?
#184
Old 07-11-2018, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Who is the other side going to be fighting for - Bernie Sanders?

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They'd be fighting for the ideals of Chairman Mao and Stalin.
#185
Old 07-11-2018, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
They'd be fighting for the ideals of Chairman Mao and Stalin.
When you presume to give the other side's arguments for them unasked, do you use a different voice-maybe make it high pitched and nasally, or perhaps Mortimer Snerd-like?
Also, when you do this, do you ever find anyone on the other side actually agreeing with what you said?
#186
Old 07-11-2018, 03:27 PM
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I thought we were going to fight because we are raged-fueled hateholes or something. And if we're not, man, am I on the wrong team!
#187
Old 07-11-2018, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
When you presume to give the other side's arguments for them unasked, do you use a different voice-maybe make it high pitched and nasally, or perhaps Mortimer Snerd-like?
Also, when you do this, do you ever find anyone on the other side actually agreeing with what you said?
That's rich coming from one of the hive who constantly are telling people what they think and what they mean when they type. Let's try for a little less irony.
#188
Old 07-11-2018, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
That's rich coming from one of the hive who constantly are telling people what they think and what they mean when they type. Let's try for a little less irony.
And a lot less handwaving and "Look! Over there!"ing.
#189
Old 07-11-2018, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
And a lot less handwaving and "Look! Over there!"ing.
Itís perfectly legit to point out the double standard. The sheer weight of the hive makes it somewhat pointless but itís helpful to point out hypocrisy.
#190
Old 07-13-2018, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
They'd be fighting for the ideals of Chairman Mao and Stalin.
Sorry, you've already foreclosed the red-scare schtick by aligning the... um... Red States with Russia.
#191
Old 07-13-2018, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Who is the other side going to be fighting for - Bernie Sanders?

Regards,
Shodan
The kids in the camps, the Muslims antagonized by Nazis, the women who want to terminate their pregnancies even though it'll make the right sad, the black people who haven't been shot by cops yet, the gay people your kind want to prevent from having families, the hispanics your kind insults while depending on them to do the jobs you won't do, the DACA program participants and the naturalized citizens your government has most recently targeted.

So far.
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#192
Old 07-13-2018, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by HMS Irruncible View Post
Sorry, you've already foreclosed the red-scare schtick by aligning the... um... Red States with Russia.
Modern Russia is not a stereotypical communist nation.
#193
Old 07-13-2018, 12:42 PM
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So it's an atypical communist nation?
#194
Old 07-13-2018, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
Modern Russia is not a stereotypical communist nation.
OK, my bad, your Red states are not going to be stereotypical communist states, they'll be some form of communism that's preferable to Maoism or Stalinism.

I mean, what now?
#195
Old 07-13-2018, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
So it's an atypical communist nation?
"Godless atypical commie bastards" does not run trippingly on the tongue.
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