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#51
Old 07-10-2018, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by pool View Post
How many accusers exactly have come forward exactly? I read one of them served time in prison for fraud and another was sued for frivolous lawsuits and threatening a woman. It's hard to say till more concrete facts are available but if the guy really abused that many people it seems like there would be plenty of accusers.

https://google.com/amp/amp.daily...rdan-accusers/
7 accusers, all of whom say that they reported this to Jordan, not that Jordan was a participant.

But those are just the 7 re: Jordan, the number of accusers against the actual coach is a far larger #.
#52
Old 07-10-2018, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
... it's as if Typo has never heard the names Jerry Sandusky, Larry Nassar, Bill Cosby, or Donald Trump at all.
Sandusky abused children. Nassar abused children and young teens. They both 'groomed' their victims first. Bill Cosby drugged his victims into unconsciousness.

Did anyone on that list sexually assault an adult male?
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#53
Old 07-10-2018, 06:42 PM
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... so, your argument is that there are special qualities in young adult males which make them less susceptible to this than grown women, younger males, and children?

Really?
#54
Old 07-10-2018, 06:43 PM
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Up to 9 accusers now.
#55
Old 07-10-2018, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
... so, your argument is that there are special qualities in young adult males which make them less susceptible to this than grown women, younger males, and children?

Really?
It's not a NOVEL attitude toward this kind of thing. It is also, unfortunately, an attitude that helps to keep reporting of sexual assault and rape of adult males from being widely reported.
#56
Old 07-11-2018, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Typo Negative View Post
Or a statement that it was not uncommon for him to show up to work with a black eye. Any group that large, men or women, at least a few would have fought.
So do you think the 8 who have come forward are lying? You talk sbout probabilities, but what is the probability all of these men would be willing to risk their reputations and dignity just to concoct a story about Jordan?

Your own posts suggests a sexually abused man who has failed to respond in the macho manner expected of him will be shamed if he speaks out. So you think these 8 guys just what...are so happy to be recipients of such shame that they would volunteer for it? That is more plausible to you then the idea that they were abused?
#57
Old 07-11-2018, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by you with the face View Post
So do you think the 8 who have come forward are lying?
An alternative gloss is that Typo is alleging they were willing participants, or why didn't they fight back? Being such big, burly manly-men. I mean, manly men never get sexuallyassaulted. And if they do, they definitely always fight back right away.
#58
Old 07-11-2018, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Typo Negative View Post
Listen, if someone produces a document about him being taken to an E.R. with injuries consistent with a beating, that would go a long way. Or a statement that it was not uncommon for him to show up to work with a black eye. Any group that large, men or women, at least a few would have fought.
You're really exposing a horrifying level of ignorance with this kind of drivel.

The reason that sexual abuse happens is because the dynamics involve one person - the perpetrator - having power over his/her victims. That's how sexual assault happens. It's power, and the absence of power. Sexual abusers manipulate. They exploit. It doesn't matter their age or their gender or their physical strength.

I'll give you another example. There have been numerous reports over the years of coaches who have allegedly physically abused their college athletes. Bobby Knight reportedly used to slap and manhandle his players, and I'm guessing some of them were big and strong enough to throw him through a wall. So why didn't they do it then, tough guy? Because it takes balls to stand up to a guy who has more power than you do and who can stop your career and all you've ever worked for dead in its tracks.

And despite what people online tough guys say they would do, in real life, the truth is 95-98% of them probably wouldn't do shit else.
#59
Old 07-11-2018, 07:58 AM
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They are also very, very good at backing off when they start to hit resistance (and regrouping and returning), and gas-lighting victims to the point that they are not sure what even happened. It's even harder to challenge someone with power over you if they've managed to leave just enough plausible deniability that there is even a 1% chance that you are wrong, that you are over-reacting. The humiliation in such a case would be complete: you'd literally have almost everyone turn their back on you. And by the time it's to the point it's unambiguous, you can't say anything, because later events make the pattern obvious, and then people will say "why didn't you say anything earlier? If it was okay before, why not now?"
#60
Old 07-11-2018, 09:02 AM
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Here's something else.

In a macho environment such as a wrestling locker-room, there are antics such as hazing that go on all the time. Some of the more senior wrestlers themselves might even be in on the 'joke', viewing it as a kind of sick, ritualistic gag that everyone has to endure for the sake of fraternal bonding. So then everyone becomes conditioned to the hazing and people become conditioned to believe that it's just a big joke. Thus, pulling someone's pants down, grabbing their crotches, and things that to the average, well-adjusted person outside of that environment would see as pretty serious violations of personal space instead become part of the locker room culture and the assumption is that everyone is supposed to just go along with it, because 'that's just the way things are done around here.'

I don't know, but the little Yoda in me says if sexual assault is part of some sort of tradition, maybe it's time to find a different tradition. Bonfires are tradition. Pep rallies are tradition. Shaving a freshman's head might even be a tradition. Grabbing someone's balls? That's not my idea of a tradition. Find a different one, maybe?

But what the hell: I'll humor skeptics and submit that such a tradition might be fine as long as *everyone* understands what's going on here, consents to it in advance, and accepts it as a joke afterward. But I'm guessing that's not the case here, hence these allegations coming out now.

So what if not everyone sees lewd behavior as youthful indiscretion? What if people really do feel violated? Are they required to accept it? Is being a part of the wrestling team conditional upon accepting sexual touching and passing it off as a joke? I don't give a shit if some of the wrestlers have a different interpretation of what happened and defend the program. If even one person got his junk grabbed without asking for it and walked away from the experience feeling violated, then it's not a joke. It's actually a pretty serious criminal offense that people can get imprisoned for. And it's not for other wrestlers to try to explain to victims how they should feel about being victimized, which is one of the most cuntish things someone can do to people who've sustained emotional injury.

Last edited by asahi; 07-11-2018 at 09:03 AM.
#61
Old 07-11-2018, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
I don't know, but the little Yoda in me says if sexual assault is part of some sort of tradition, maybe it's time to find a different tradition. Bonfires are tradition. Pep rallies are tradition. Shaving a freshman's head might even be a tradition. Grabbing someone's balls? That's not my idea of a tradition. Find a different one, maybe?
Your little Yoda speaks much truth.
#62
Old 07-11-2018, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by you with the face View Post
So do you think the 8 who have come forward are lying? You talk sbout probabilities, but what is the probability all of these men would be willing to risk their reputations and dignity just to concoct a story about Jordan?
I generally believe the stories about people coming forward. I’ve given it a lot of thought in the #MeToo era.

I used to work in show business, with a lot of celebrities. And it was the ‘80’s, things were different....yadda...yadda. You’ve heard it before. And sometimes the playfulness crossed a line. Now, I never personally felt offended or violated. And I never took it as sexual harassment- mostly because the guys I was working with were notoriously gay.

But if I opened a newspaper tomorrow and saw that women were accusing a certain celebrity of grabbing their breasts, and that celebrity was denying it — I’d make a call. Because I’d KNOW that the women were right and the guy was a liar. And it wouldn’t matter that I wasn’t bothered when it happened to me.

So I tend to believe most of the people that come forward.

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 07-11-2018 at 09:46 AM.
#63
Old 07-11-2018, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Crafter_Man View Post
I have nothing to add except for this irrelevant fact: Jim Jordan lives less than 5 miles from me. I drive by his house all the time when I go to Urbana. He built a couple buildings adjacent to him home for his "Wrestling Camp."

Wrestling is really really big in these parts.
Are you sure you're not referring to his brother, Jeff Jordan's, camp?

https://heavy.com/news/2018/07/jim-j...stling-family/

(Item 4)

Last edited by JohnT; 07-11-2018 at 12:33 PM.
#64
Old 07-11-2018, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
An alternative gloss is that Typo is alleging they were willing participants, or why didn't they fight back? Being such big, burly manly-men. I mean, manly men never get sexuallyassaulted. And if they do, they definitely always fight back right away.
You’d think Terry Crews speaking out about his experience would dispell notions that men don’t “let” themselves be victimized like women do. But I guess not.
#65
Old 07-12-2018, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
Are you sure you're not referring to his brother, Jeff Jordan's, camp?

https://heavy.com/news/2018/07/jim-j...stling-family/

(Item 4)
Ah, you're right. Thought that was Jim's house all these years. Did some more checking. Jim lives about half a mile from Jeff. Nice old farm house.
#66
Old 07-12-2018, 08:18 AM
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What a shock. The coach (Jimbos boss) who signed a letter saying Jim knew nothing about this, is on record saying that he knew about the abuse, spoke to it to school administrators, and confronted Strauss about the abuse.

This recording was made prior to the revelations.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog...admits-he-knew
#67
Old 07-12-2018, 08:58 AM
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To clarify - the "he" in the above should read "the coach". I blame the voice-to-text software fudging everything up as I typed that.
#68
Old 07-12-2018, 01:13 PM
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By way of Crooks and Liars, Louis "Goober" Gohmert blames Hillary
.
https://crooksandliars.com/2018/07/l...jordan-scandal

Quote:
"...he would not be shocked if cash payments had not already been made to the accusers “to purchase a drive-by character assassination of beloved conservative Republican Congressman Jim Jordan.”...
#69
Old 07-12-2018, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by elucidator View Post
By way of Crooks and Liars, Louis "Goober" Gohmert blames Hillary
.
https://crooksandliars.com/2018/07/l...jordan-scandal
If not Hillary, then it was the "Deep State" or George Soros.
#70
Old 07-12-2018, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
An alternative gloss is that Typo is alleging they were willing participants, or why didn't they fight back? Being such big, burly manly-men. I mean, manly men never get sexuallyassaulted. And if they do, they definitely always fight back right away.
I said absolutely nothing of the kind.

As to the 8 or 9 who have come forward....that is a perfectly believable number.

But 8 or 9 not what I am talking about. What I am talking about is 1500-2000 number cited in this thread.

This number, it seems, would make him one of the most prolific abusers in history. This is an extraordinary claim. It requires extraordinary evidence.
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#71
Old 07-12-2018, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Typo Negative View Post
I said absolutely nothing of the kind.

As to the 8 or 9 who have come forward....that is a perfectly believable number.

But 8 or 9 not what I am talking about. What I am talking about is 1500-2000 number cited in this thread.

This number, it seems, would make him one of the most prolific abusers in history. This is an extraordinary claim. It requires extraordinary evidence.
Could you point to the post where this claim was made?
#72
Old 07-12-2018, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Typo Negative View Post

But 8 or 9 not what I am talking about. What I am talking about is 1500-2000 number cited in this thread.

This number, it seems, would make him one of the most prolific abusers in history. This is an extraordinary claim. It requires extraordinary evidence.
Sexual abuse has a wide definition. If you include all the students who saw him expose himself in a sexual way, that may be where the 2000 number is coming from. It's not that he raped or physically assaulted that many.

It sounds like he may have been fond of washing his genitals with too much gusto while showering with students. That would certainly be a good way to sexually abuse a dozen or more students at a time.
#73
Old 07-12-2018, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by filmore View Post
Sexual abuse has a wide definition.
In the cite upthread, they did not use the term sexual abuse. The term used was sexual assault\rape.

Just for comparison, the Nassar abuse case was about 300 victims, all minors. At least one of them, probably more, went to the police.
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Last edited by Typo Negative; 07-12-2018 at 03:38 PM.
#74
Old 07-12-2018, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
Could you point to the post where this claim was made?
The NBC News article linked on the first page.
#75
Old 07-12-2018, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Typo Negative View Post
In the cite upthread, they did not use the term sexual abuse. The term used was sexual assault\rape.

Just for comparison, the Nassar abuse case was about 300 victims, all minors. At least one of them, probably more, went to the police.
Sorry, I meant assault, not abuse. Assault is any unwanted sexual advance, which includes sexual exposure.
#76
Old 07-12-2018, 08:49 PM
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Every day it seems the bastard "gets more guilty".

And someone should put Gomer Goober out of our misery once and for all.
#77
Old 07-12-2018, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
The NBC News article linked on the first page.
Neither that page nor the more extensive article it links to says 1500, 2000 or even uses the word thousand.
#78
Old 07-13-2018, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Typo Negative View Post
I said absolutely nothing of the kind.
Yes, that would be why I said "alleging"

Last edited by MrDibble; 07-13-2018 at 01:24 AM.
#79
Old 07-13-2018, 02:16 AM
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I answered this question before, in post 19. Even highlighted the number:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
https://nbcnews.com/news/us-news...sexual-n888386



“Strauss sexually assaulted male athletes in at least fifteen varsity sports during his employment at OSU from 1978 through 1998,” DiSabato wrote in a June 26 email to Kathleen M. Trafford of Porter Wright Morris & Arthur, the Columbus-based law firm that represents Ohio State. “Athlete victims include members of the following programs: football, basketball, wrestling, swimming, cheerleading, volleyball, lacrosse, gymnastics, ice hockey, soccer, baseball, tennis, track and cross country.”

Chillingly, DiSabato added: “Based on testimony from victim athletes from each of the aforementioned varsity sports, we estimate that Strauss sexually assaulted and/or raped a minimum of 1,500/2,000 athletes at OSU from 1978 through 1998."
#80
Old 07-13-2018, 10:27 AM
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Yup. That number jumped out at me.
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#81
Old 07-13-2018, 06:12 PM
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Columbus Dispatch Sports Columnist and former Ohio State sprinter Rob Oller wrote this column last Sunday describing his experience with Dr. Strauss: http://thisweeknews.com/sports/2...in-early-1980s

Last edited by Chris 7:14; 07-13-2018 at 06:16 PM. Reason: link has paywall
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