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#101
Old 07-18-2018, 12:50 PM
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Perhaps inspired by his reasonable performance during the Sasha Cohen interview, Matt Gaetz (R-FL(!)) is extending his neuro-typical brand: he has decided that as a member of Congress, he should no longer appear on InfoWars. I know, this isn't a high bar. No, most modern conservatives don't clear it. https://twitter.com/existentialfish/...35631805423617
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidwithanR
Would you be willing to provide an English translation for this part?
Sure. Conservative politicians in safe seats are still safe. Conservative commentators deep in the crazy-bubble are still safe. The Gun Owners of America operation won't experience mass resignations, nor will the Virginia gun group. Ref: Epistemic closure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
I can't agree that the psychology is any sort of excuse. Yes, he can put you in the situation that would make you most amenable to saying things, but the things he is getting them to agree with are things that are so bad that anyone who could even agree with them is a shitty person in my mind. The best case scenario is that they don't actually believe it, but don't think that such beliefs are all that bad.
Or the viewer doesn't appreciate the degree of off-camera disorientation involved, or the power of mentalist manipulations. See Derren Brown.

Or... these conservatives are grifters/spokesmen/showmen and have stopped caring about what they are saying years ago. Joe Walsh and Trent Lott fall in that category.
Quote:
And, of course, if someone is interviewing you for any sort of media, you should be smart enough to be on your guard for traps. Maybe some idiot off the street isn't, but a politician? Come on.
Joe Walsh and Trent Lott are former politicians. Matt Gaetz was a current politician, so he was more on guard. Palin? Well she never was particularly bright, but I suspect her remaining base will stay loyal. Epistemic closure.

The gun enthusiasts are more striking, as they pose as experts on television and to their membership. Grifter/spokesman/showman.

Last edited by Measure for Measure; 07-18-2018 at 12:55 PM.
#102
Old 07-18-2018, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Measure for Measure View Post
Perhaps inspired by his reasonable performance during the Sasha Cohen interview, Matt Gaetz (R-FL(!)) is extending his neuro-typical brand: he has decided that as a member of Congress, he should no longer appear on InfoWars. I know, this isn't a high bar. No, most modern conservatives don't clear it. https://twitter.com/existentialfish/...35631805423617

Sure. Conservative politicians in safe seats are still safe. Conservative commentators deep in the crazy-bubble are still safe. The Gun Owners of America operation won't experience mass resignations, nor will the Virginia gun group. Ref: Epistemic closure. Or the viewer doesn't appreciate the degree of off-camera disorientation involved, or the power of mentalist manipulations. See Derren Brown.

Or... these conservatives are grifters/spokesmen/showmen and have stopped caring about what they are saying years ago. Joe Walsh and Trent Lott fall in that category. Joe Walsh and Trent Lott are former politicians. Matt Gaetz was a current politician, so he was more on guard. Palin? Well she never was particularly bright, but I suspect her remaining base will stay loyal. Epistemic closure.

The gun enthusiasts are more striking, as they pose as experts on television and to their membership. Grifter/spokesman/showman.
You sure do use the word "conservative" a lot when you're talking about radicals.
#103
Old 07-18-2018, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
You sure do use the word "conservative" a lot when you're talking about radicals.
The proper terminology is difficult, not least of all because of the continuous 180 degree ideological pivots executed, as Trumpists keep up with the President's mood swings.


One way of thinking is that reactionaries have taken over the GOP, and those believing in gradual change have been absorbed into the Democratic Party. After all, the Democratic Party would be center-right in any other democratic country in the world. [1] But reactionary sounds shrill. I sometimes use the term modern conservative, to contrast with the conservatives of the 1950s-1970s, who believed in gradual change.

But it's been increasingly clear over the past 2 years, that the principles that conservatives claimed to have over the past generation or so -eg free trade, anti-totaltarianism- aren't especially important to them. And they aren't even pretending that tax cuts will trickle down any longer, not to any persuasive degree. Centrists and liberals have been boxing shadows for the past 30 years or so.

Currently, I apply the term conservative, but understand it as an social grouping glued together more by tribalism than ideology. It is what they like to call themselves, so there's that.


[1] Definition: Freedom Index: 1-2 out 7, https://freedomhouse.org/report/free...dom-world-2018

Last edited by Measure for Measure; 07-18-2018 at 03:05 PM.
#104
Old 07-19-2018, 08:59 AM
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Lawyer writing in the Hollywood Reporter on the chances of winning a lawsuit against Cohen. In brief, extremely long odds.
#105
Old 07-19-2018, 01:38 PM
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Legalities aside, I believe that Sacha's victims deserve compensation. I'm thinking along the lines of a year's supply of Turtle Wax and maybe a fruit basket. Time is money, you know.
#106
Old 07-19-2018, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
1. I think you'd find that you'd have a hard time making a good argument that the language that was used was NOT an accurate
description of the show; those statements are carefully crafted.

2. The difference is in punching up and punching down, IMO. Cohen is punching up; O'Keefe is always punching down.
1. Again my point is not legalistic (over legalism, perhaps the most salient feature of modern US society). It's simply speculating if oral statements were made which were basically somebody misrepresenting themselves. I guess probably.

2. Not sure about that at all in general. In many or most cases Cohen has misrepresented himself to make ordinary people look stupid and bigoted. With regard to certain well known (if typically kinda has-been) politicians he has punked and being discussed just now, OK not. So sometimes up, sometime down. I don't see any clear up/down about the conservative sting videos. What makes each of those stingers (it's not just one) 'punching down' against a large organization like Planned Parenthood? Except it's individual staffers there looking bad...but seems pretty muddled to me and altogether the punching up/down point not a very strong one IMO.

Last edited by Corry El; 07-19-2018 at 02:08 PM.
#107
Old 07-19-2018, 04:16 PM
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Slate published an interview today with the art gallery woman about her experience being on the show. She takes it much better than the politicians.

Quote:
Slate: How did you feel when you saw the final segment?

Christy Cones: I felt lucky and fortunate. Thank you, God or gods or destiny, for bringing me into the path of this comic genius and letting me be tangentially involved in a project that is noble and worthy, even if it ruffles feathers. You gotta learn to laugh and realize that without art and satire, humanity would have perished thousands of years ago. We have to identify things that are wrong in our culture and we have to find solutions and the best way to do that sometimes is to view them from a perspective that will cause less pain.

I just donít take myself as seriously as the politicians. They put themselves in the limelight and then they act so victimized.
The entire interview is worth reading, because it gives a little insight into how these interviews go.

Also, here's an article from the Borat timeframe about the waivers people sign.
#108
Old 07-19-2018, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutMan View Post
Slate published an interview today with the art gallery woman about her experience being on the show. She takes it much better than the politicians.
Her reaction to being duped by Cohen was pretty classy. But not all politicians reacted badly to finding out about the ruse. I haven't been able to find anything about Bernie Sanders' reaction, probably because there wasn't really anything for him to complain about -- unlike the Republican morons, he came off looking just fine.
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